A statue story from the south
Due to the absence of coverage in the mainstream english media (CNN-IBN is running yet another headline about who is greater King Khan or Big Bee). Here is a compilation from the vernacular print media about the recent events in the state of Tamilnadu. This time it has nothing to do with Dalits like in Maharashtra. You can see the difference between violence born of oppression and that born of hatred.
Read on - no comments offered. Just a direct translation, so excuse the sentence construction.
Credit to blogger Vichaarah for some of the pictures.
What happened ?
First an intro about the place for north Indians and foreign visitors to this blog. Srirangam (Tiruvarangam) is the oldest, largest, and arguably the most important of all temple complexes in India. It is an ancient structure, parts of which are atleast 1500-1800 year old, even the Silapadikkaram the ancient tamil epic refers to it. All of the alwars (vaishava saints) have sung in praise of it. It is a magnificient temple complex with various architectural styles, the sheer size and sculptures of the temple are awe inspiring. It doesnt matter what your religious inclination might be - the temple is there and it is a stunning reminder of the empires past such as Chola, and Vijayanagar.
Enter the statue. The tamil rationlist leader EV Ramasami Naicker also known as Periyar is the father of the atheist rationalist movement called the Dravidian movement. This forms the guiding ideology of the DMK and to a lesser extent the AIADMK (the AIADMK is not atheist). He had his positives, but he also broke several idols and garlanded statues of Ram with slippers. He also virulently hated brahmins and hindu temples in particular. Now his organization, Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) wants to install a life size statue of him right outside the main tower of the world renowned temple on Dec 16th. If you dont like temples because you are an atheist, fine - consider it to be a world famous historical site. Either way, this arguably provocative move ruffled the feathers of hindus (of all castes) . This led to some miscreants damaging the statue.
Picture : Periyar statue ready for inauguration right outside the main tower of the world famous Srirangam (Tiruvarangam) temple. (Pic source : Dinamalar)
The Retribution
This set off an unprecedented chain of violence against hindu temples and brahmins in the state. This is unreported or under-reported in the national news media.
1. Ayodhya Mandapam attacked with Petrol and Acid bombs (story)
Sri Ram Samaj also known as Ayodhya Mandapam is a well known Ram temple and religious centre in the heart of Chennai in West Mambalam. Around 330PM on Dec 8th around 15 dravidian activists allegedly descended on the temple in two autorickshaws with deadly weapons and shouted “Dont spare anyone who wears sacred thread, or marks on their head Tilak or Vibhuti, thrash them” at passers by. Then they proceeded to attack the temple. First they threw an acid bomb into the temple complex,the acid struck a screen which caught fire. When devotees rushed to douse the flames, the activists hurled a petrol bomb on the idol outside the temple and another inside the temple. They shouted this was in revenge for the damage caused to the EVR Periyar statue kept outside the world famous Sri Ranganath Swamy temple in Srirangam. Then they attacked a poor Brahmin Dhandapani who was selling pooja items outside the temple on the footpath with a wooden stick, they also did not spare Murali a flower seller.
Image : Petrol and Acid bomb attack on Ayodhya Mantap
2. Slipper garland for Sri Ram picture in Hosur
In Hosur in Krishnagiri district, a Sri Ram pattabhisekam (coronation) picture was garlanded with slippers and set on fire in the middle of the road. A bunch of activists belonging to Pudiya Jananayaka Munnetra Kazhagam (New Democratic Progressive Party) arrived at the Sri Ram temple near Gandhi Statue and shouted slogan condemning the damage to EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. They then placed a Sri Ram picture outside the temple and garlanded it with slippers, they carried the picture in a procession before setting it on fire near the Gandhi statue. Hearing this BJP ,Hindu Munnani and RSS supporters arrived on the scene in hundreds. An altercation broke out between them and the Periyar supporters, in which the head of the person who set the picture on fire, Parsuraman was broken [sic] and it started bleeding. Following that BJP and its supporters blocked the roads and demanded action.
3. Salem Shankaracharya Mutt and vedic school ransacked (Story)
In Salems Maravaneri area, there is a mutt and vedic school run by the Kanchi Shankar Mutt. This was ransacked by a gang of dravidian activists to protest the damage caused to the EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. Terrified priests rushed outside screaming. They proceeded to ransack the place,tables, chairs, pooja items were smashed and thrown all over the place.They smashed the pictures of Shankaracharya Jayendra and Vijayendra Saraswathis to pieces. They did not even spare the telephones, tubelights, or bulbs. Following this five activists belonging to Periyar Dravidian Party, Tamil Youth Party, Tamil National Party were arrested.
Image: Shankar Mutt ransacked. Pictures, pooja items, lights, furniture smashed in Salem(Source : Dinamalar)
4. Chemplast VP and 4 others attacked in Mettur
In condemnation of the Periyar statue damage, Chemplast Industries Vice President Parthasarathy and four others were attacked. Members belonging to the DK (Dravidar Kazhagam) were apprehended.
5. Sri Ram picture set on fire outside Srirangam temple (story)
In protest against the Periyar statue damage, about 50 members of Makkal Kalai Iyakkam (Peoples Art Org) brought a picture of Sri Ram and set it on fire outside the temple. Dravidar Kazhagam president K. Veeramani meanwhile announced that a 5.5 ft tall bronze statue of Periyar would now be installed outside the temple.
6. Lord Vinayak (Ganesh) statues descrated near Villupuram (story )
A vinayaka temple near the taluk office in Sankarapuram in Villupuram dist was vandalized and two Ganesh idols were uprooted and smashed by miscreants. Some activists belonging to the Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam allegedly uprooted the idol and later smashed it and threw it outside the taluk office. Similarly, another temple (Shakti Vinayakar near the said Taluk office)was damaged, the vimanam tower and nandi statues were dismembered. This was to protest the damage done to the EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. Townfolk lead by RSS and Hindu Munnani who came to pray in the morning were shell shocked. In the hundreds, the blocked the Tiruvannamanail-Kallakurichi road. The collector tried to pacify the group by they would not disperse until the miscreants were arrested. Police found a bit paper amidst the broken statues which claimed this was revenge for the damage caused to the Periyar statue and Ambedkar statue. No group has claimed responsibility. The idols are in police custody. Tension is prevailing in that area, and police are swarming the place.
Picture : Nandi, Vinayaka, and Gargoyle like guardian sculptures on temple dismembered near Villupuram (Source : Dinamalar)
7. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi made accused in FIR (story)
Tiruchi police have filed an FIR on Swami Dayanand Saraswathi in link with the Periyar statue case. A Periyar statue which was kept ready for inauguration by the Dravida Kazhagam (DK) president K.Veeramani was recently damaged by miscreants. In response to this, throughout Tamilnadu Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) and other associated outfits have launced attacks on Hindu places of worship. Police have included the leader and convenor of the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha and renowned sanyasi Swami Dayanand Saraswathi as an accused. This is apparently based on information provided by four people who were apprehended. The police refused to comment on whether he would be arrested. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi also condemned the damage done to the statue and said this issue can be resolved peacefully. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi runs a vedic school called Arsha Vidya Gurukulam in Anaikatti near Coimbatore. He was devotees and supporters all over the world. Subraminian Swamy condemned this FIR on the sanyasi for merely issuing a statement against the installation of the statue right in front of the world famous and ancient Sri Ranganathaswamy temple in Srirangam.
8. Raghavendra temple ransacked in Erode, devotees cry (story)
Priest and cook attacked and sacred thread cut
Picture above: The presiding deity thrown outside the temple in Erode (Pic source : Dinamalar)
Picture above : Priest whose sacred thread was cut
Pic above : Anguished devotee weeping in front of a picture of Sri Ram at Raghavendra temple Erode (all pics courtesy Dinamalar)
Raghavendra Brindavanam is located in the Kaarai Vaaykal area in Agraharam street in Erode. Today, arrangements were being made for the Sayarakshai Puja, devotees had just begun to trickle in when around 5.15 PM a group of Dravidar Kazhagam volunteers, entered the temple calmly. Suddenly they started attacking anyone in sight, and smashing anything they could get their hands on. Then they entered the sanctorum and removed the presiding deity Sri Ram which was between Sitadevi and Hanuman idols. They uprooted the idol and took it outside to the street and smashed it with a hammer. A priest Narasimhan attempted to stop the gang of 10 members, he was beaten up. 60 year old priest Venkatraman Acharya was assaulted and his kudumi (tuft of hair) was removed and hit sacred thread was cut. The temple cook Balaji and some others were also assaulted. The idols and pooja items kept ready for the evenings “Oonjal Sevai” were smashed. No robbery was committed and the Hundi was left untouched, it appears the sole purpose was to vandalize the temple. Upon hearing this hundreds of devotees surrounded the place. RSS and Hindu Munnani volunteers protested to the police. Some devotees started weeping publicly.Seven people of the Thanthai Periyar Dravida Iyakkam (Father Periyar Dravidian Party) have been detained in this connection.
9. State BJP leaders protest in Chennai
State BJP gen sec, Thamizisai Sounderrajan lead a BJP delegation to protest the
attacks on temples. AIADMK leaders SV Sekar and VP Kaliarajan met the victims and expressed sympathy.
10. DK President Veeramani asks for restraint
Dravidar Kazhagam president K. Veeramani on Friday appealed to people to exercise restraint. In a statement, he said nobody should take the law into their
hands and cause embarrassment to the State Government.
on December 9, 2006 on 9:14 am
The Dravida movement is full of crooks and rascals.
on December 9, 2006 on 9:17 am
regular news media will classify this under ‘anger of the oppressed’. Thanks for collecting all information and making a complete post. If this is the unbridled / unquestionable force of this ‘anger of the oppressed’ today, with Ramasami Naicker dead and with 24 hour news channels and camera phones making it a litlte less difficult to get away without being recorded, imagine the strength of this force in the fifties and sixties with Ramasami Naicker alive. That is what the brahmins endured in tamil nadu. Shame on Indian secularism.
And regular news media will also want you to believe that these are the oppressed and deserve reservation, and brahmins are the oppressors.
There was another news story that largely went under-reported - a case of death of a girl student in a Christian missionary run school in Omalur near Salem. The local people complained of 2 other similar deaths in the recent past in that school. There were reports of liquor bottles found inside the school. The case is going to be closed as suicide, and christian organizations are making this a case of ‘minoirty persecution’ - because some people connected with the school were arrested under public pressure.
Remember a case of a attempted suicide of a dalit student who could not clear her prep course at IIT-M and the ‘outrage’ that was manufactured following that?
on December 9, 2006 on 9:42 am
[...] Vichaarah and RealityCheck have more. [...]
on December 9, 2006 on 3:57 pm
[...] Realitycheck, culling stories from the vernacular press, points towards incidents of violence against Hindu temples in Tamilnadu. The provocation: some miscreants had damaged a statue of Periyar. I must confess, I haven’t seen any coverage about these incidents in the national media. Around 330PM on Dec 8th around 15 dravidian activists allegedly descended on the temple in two autorickshaws with deadly weapons and shouted “Dont spare anyone who wears sacred thread, or marks on their head Tilak or Vibhuti, thrash them” at passers by. Then they proceeded to attack the temple. First they threw an acid bomb into the temple complex,the acid struck a screen which caught fire. When devotees rushed to douse the flames, the activists hurled a petrol bomb on the idol outside the temple and another inside the temple [...]
on December 9, 2006 on 5:33 pm
So Periyar merely became a proxy for the God whose idols he sought to destroy all his life?
on December 9, 2006 on 7:50 pm
The only reason I know about this is because my dad is there right now and was present in Srirangam when it happened. Quite scary…
on December 9, 2006 on 10:17 pm
[...] Reality Check offers a compilation of reports from Tamil vernacular press on the attacks on temples after a Periyar statue was damaged. (EV Ramasami Naicker) had his positives, but he also broke several idols and garlanded statues of Ram with slippers. He also virulently hated brahmins and hindu temples in particular. Now his organization, Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) wants to install a life size statue of him right outside the main tower of the world renowned temple on Dec 16th…Either way, this arguably provocative move ruffled the feathers of hindus (of all castes) . This led to some miscreants damaging the statue. [...]
on December 10, 2006 on 7:27 am
RC,
My heartfelt thanks to you for bringing this news to the attention of a wider audience.
The hate-filled politics of these thugs never ceases to amaze. The resolution to put the completely irrelevant hate thing (hereby referred to as CIHT
in front of the magnificent temple was passed in 1973! Why bring it up now? And this veeramani chap - covered in point 10 of your post - he was the guy who laid the installation stone of the CIHT in 1996!
You must, if you haven’t - check out veeramani’s profile here. An amazing extract from the profile of this relentless social justice crusader:
”
In recognition of his service to the Community, the public presented him silver equal to his weight at a State Level Conference held at Pudukkottai.
In honour of his services to the humanity, the public presented [....snip....], gold weighed against his weight at an International meet at Thanjavur.
”
Of course this CIHT thing is, as you know, not new. They did the same thing when they *did* install the statue of naicker outside the kAnchi matha (early 70’s - same time the decision to install the Srirangam CIHT was taken) to mock Hindu believers.
on December 10, 2006 on 3:18 pm
This is an outrage. Evermore there seems to be a feeling of helplessness. This UPA is not going to do anything about it. I feel awful after reading this - but am glad I did.
on December 10, 2006 on 4:16 pm
I am presenting a slightly different view point.First of all, I have nothing but contempt (and seething hatred) for periyaar DK,and people of their ilk.What they have done is despicable.it cannot be tolerated. Neverthless one must understand the motives of the mainstream politicians.Tamils believe that they are different from indians,their language is different from every other language.Their stand in the reservation issue is also motivated by this.These deep feelings cannot be ignored,when we comment sensitive issues. A few thoughts ( with the caveat- that we should continue to strive for unity)
1) why is there such a wide gulf between iyers and iyengars?
2)What is the reason for hatred towards the kanchi mutt- is it because it stands for pan indian hinduism? and does not recogonise the special status of tamil language?
3)Sri Vaishnava mutts do not attract such hatred? They seem to stay clear of such controversies.(the controversy is supposed to be about srirangam)
4)Srivaishnavas include tamil liturgy as a part of their anushtanam.The Advaita thought is considered elitist.
5)Is it also possible that vadama brahmanas ,who migrated from karnataka and AP during nayaka period, are just ignoring the tamil angle.not delberately,but because tamil nationalism is getting bigger and bigger and just cannot be accomodated within indian nationalism.I think only Time can provide answers,we are far too small.
6) brahmanas are just dropping off the tamil radar .
7) Tamil plays an insignificant part in our intellectual and spiritual life.except to notice scurillous attacks from dravidian racists.Of course we enjoy rajni and mani ratnam (to different degrees).For tamil non brahmins ,tamil is a vital part of their intellectual existence.( to the degree it exists)
8)Only scientists and engineers among brahmanas might help in reconnecting with the larger tamil society.But this will take time.we cant predict the contours of this process.
9)The attacks seem to have been targeted against sankara and madhva mutts.Is there a message being missed?
10)Reservation in tamilnadu cannot be delinked from liguistic nationalism.Tamils believe that they are retreiving their language and culture from the aryans after 1500 years of subjugation,which started from the pallava rule
on December 10, 2006 on 6:42 pm
So, you guys think a Dravidian secessionist movement is possible? What is more likely, Dravidian secessionist movement or a full blown Dalit revolution?
on December 10, 2006 on 8:06 pm
Barb / xyz -
Slow down guys !
The overwhelming majority of Tamils are hard working, decent, god fearing people who really do not care for this kind of hooliganism. They do not care about 3000 year old theories either. Religiousness is on the rise in TN among all castes. An outsider will not believe that this place is ruled by atheist ideology. Even lorries, autos, vans, and cars, are named after this or that god. Temple festivals are packed with people of all castes who mingle with each other quite freely and respectfully. There are pitched battles about rights to pull the temple cars on various occasions.
This is the surest proof of the irrelevance and total failure of the central theme of atheism in contemporary TN. Arguably, by attacking religion using intimidation and ridicule - the dravidian movement might have had an opposite effect. Just walk outside to any street corner and you will find people of all castes getting ready for the annual Sabarimala season. No state sends as many people there as TN. Most taxis, vans, tours are booked full going to Kerala. You cannot get a “Tirupati” appointment for two months down the road. People crowd the Tiruvannamalai festival in record numbers. Such acts of violence against an already diminished community will have the opposite effect of pushing people away from these leaders. The DK leadership should have adapted with the times and dropped the anti-brahmin rhetoric and focused on the positive things Periyar said about equality of castes, womens rights, and so forth. They are doing gross injustice to their own leader.
Let us not extrapolate the behavior of one or two outfits to the entire tamil population.
on December 10, 2006 on 9:03 pm
Of course I was exaggerating, but then again I am not a newspaper reporter. I like to do scenario analysis. I realized reading your blog that a lot of local issues and realities are being glossed over at the national level. As a result, the noise from the active Dravidian guys that reach us is extremely loud.
This is a problem, perhaps this results from the fragmentation of politics. Mistrust builds because of this. Despite all the advances of new technology, there is a lot of segregation going on. This is not good but what can you do about it? Our political leaders are not being exactly role models in bridging the gap and likewise the electorate seem to gleefully pander to the communal divisive ideologies.
on December 11, 2006 on 2:26 am
RealityCheck,
Thanks for compiling the list of recent atrocities by EVR followers. I also think that someone needs to compile the atrocities that happened during the 60s, at the height of the Dravidian movement. Because they came into power, and history is written by the winners, the anti-Brahmin atrocities of the 60s are being slowly forgotten. With the release of the whitewashed “Periyar” movie, they hope the rewrite of history will be complete. It is up to the relatives and descendants of the victims to preserve the memory of those atrocities so that future generations can remember and the propaganda can be countered. Even now most Tamil intellectuals will simply deny that there was even a anti-Brahmin component to the Dravidian movement. Only a compilation of facts for all to see will negate this propaganda.
on December 11, 2006 on 3:51 am
>> I also think that someone needs to compile the atrocities that happened during the 60s, >>
Absolutely.
Barb,
Of course, I knew you were exagerrating
There are two faces to every ideology. Its natural appeal and whether or not it offers some tangible and/or material benefits.
Let me indulge in some exagerration myself. I will use an american analogy. Say the state of Massachussets offers a 20% tax credit for all obvious Yankees fans - because it feels the citizens are too partisan and wants to encourage support for all teams. You will have to wear a baseball hat and T-shirt to avail of this. Guess what will happen - most individuals will start wearing yankees outfits but secretly root for the red sox. The minute the 20% tax credit is withdrawn everyone will go back to their original positions.
It sounds farcical only because we dont expect a rational american state legislature to do something like this.
on December 11, 2006 on 7:41 am
rc,
i was only trying to highlight the ‘other’ viewpoint,not sound alarmist.There is no chance of Tamilnadu seceding, atleast for 20 years.Tamil politicians and intellectuals want to engage india,at their terms.In a detached way,i respect their viewpoint.Tamils have always had intercourse with the rest of india and tamils have much in common with other indians.
Neverthless they have a distinct identity.During the freedom struggle dravidian leaders supported the british.because they felt they would become second class citizens in independent india.(’parpana pillaikilodu nammal potti poda mudiyathu,eka india endra peyaral tamizhan nasuka paduvan’).”We can’t compete with brahmanas,tamils will be sacrificed at the altar of india.” Reservation was and is the only way to maintain the power equation.Tamil politicians of all hues and castes support this view point.This fear is shared by vokkaligas,ezhavas,scs.
Tamils had their way in state govt jobs and educational institutions.But the thugs were in the forefront during mandal 1.We resigned ourselves to the new situation..Now in IITs,the creamy layer is poised to have a free lunch.This is where tamils are different from others.Proportional representation is not implemented within TN.There are many layers in tamil society.pallars(sc’s),mutharayars(the single largest community in karur,tiruchi),konars and numerous other small communities are still poor.
The philosophy of Dravidian leaders is reservation in education and state employment ,but laissez-faire in all other fields.One can understand their concerns,but when it starts violating others’ basic rights,they have to be stopped.
The attack on temples has been selective.Even at the height of the dravidian movement,murugan and mariamman were not attacked.Iswara(sivan) was considered a “southern” god.pillaiyar(Ganapathi) was ,in this world view, a kannada import.Sri Rama attracted special ire.The hosur incident might also have to do with simmering tamil-kannada tension in the border town.
I wanted to highlight the complexity of the situation in TN.Madras is today more cosmopolitan than ever.People are pouring in from north india,AP and orissa.Many MNCs and indian conglommerates are setting up shop in chennai.The business climate and labour market is congenial to them.
on December 11, 2006 on 8:19 am
>> Iswara(sivan) was considered a “southern” god.pillaiyar(Ganapathi) was ,in this world view, a kannada import.>>
Wow - this is crazy. Thanks for the info. Arent Ganesha and Murugan supposed to be brothers ? There are Ganesha sanctums in even the most ancient temples. Are they claiming some Kannadiga sneaked them in 2K years back ? If Siva is a “southern” god, then why are Mt Kailash and Gangotri glacier in the north. Doesnt make sense, not that I expect it to.
Are there any good books on this subject ?
on December 11, 2006 on 8:27 am
I had been to TN a few times.Tamil society is filled with hatred.These guys feel that their culture is superior to all cultures (including their border states).They also say that Tamil is a sweet language.That is pure shit.Telugu is the sweetest among south indian languages.I always feel that kannada culture is much superior and they are peace loving people.Not many people particulaly IT people prefer to go to chennai.They prefer Bangalore or Hyderabad. These guys even if they goto US move together speak in tamil.They are not easily sociable people.
on December 11, 2006 on 8:38 am
One more thing that intrigues me a lot
If tamil nationalism was/is as strong as you claim. Why is there no support on the ground for the sri lankan tamils ? I am not talking about lip service or token fasts. I am talking about folks from TN going to fight the sinhalese oppressors. Just like Pakistanis get trained and come into J&K. If an Tamil equivalent of Lashkar opened a recruiting centre in TN - do you really envision anyone signing up ? I saw a pretty heart rending program on BBC recently where they showed the plight of the Jaffna peninsula due to the blockade. A doctor claims they dont even have gauzes, so they wash and reuse the old ones. Except one politician (vaiko) no one even bothered to make a major issue of this.
on December 11, 2006 on 9:20 am
Off-topic: RC, Abi has posted quite a few posts on the Other India site about OBC population data. You might want to take a look.
on December 11, 2006 on 10:42 am
I can imagine if these DK thugs were to try and cut the skullcap of a Muslim, or cut the frock of a priest. They will not dare do that, or they will be on TV getting their heads cut off, or in the case of a priest, their donations will dry up. Brahmans have been peace loving and law-abiding. If the arrested thugs are let off by the Govt, many may finally feel compelled to take the law into their own hands for self-defence, and the next decade may witness the first Brahman suicide bomber at a DK meeting. TN may become like Iraq with sectarian conflict and lack of law and order and plunging investment. I wish all thse DK/…[A-Z]*K parties would go and die in Sri Lanka.
on December 11, 2006 on 10:50 am
xyz has several interesting theories - dravida groups apparently targetted only Iyer (saivaite) brahmins and not iyengars (vaishnavites) because vaishnavites adopted tamil for worship. And also dravida groups did not abuse siva worship because siva was a tamil god, and they abused rama. But Rama is a god of Vaishnavites, so shouldn’t he be spared? is there a different theory for that? in truth both in saiva and vaishnava temples in tamil nadu, the agama worship and archanas are based on sanskrit. And both saiva and vaishnava temples recite tamil hymns during morning/evening arathi.
And dravida attacks on temples in hosur is because of karnataka-tamil nadu row - then what was the deal with attacks in Salem, Erode and Chennai? and what was with all that crap when naicker was alive, back in the fifties and sixties?
And dravida groups are only sending a ‘message’ to Advaita and Madhva groups with their attacks - the provocation was placing a naicker statue in front of Sri rangam, a Vaishnava shrine.
And that stuff about vadama brahmins migrating from karnataka - the vadama brahmin sect too has tamil as mother tongue - tamil was *not* the mother tongue of naicker - it was telugu or kannada, and naicker called tamil a barbaric language.
The reason why Kanchi mutt is specificaly targetted is very clear - The previous acharya, Chandrasekharendra saraswathi, toured all over the state, and all nooks and corners of tamil nadu in the sixties and seventies, when naicker’s hate mongering was at the highest and nobody dared stand up against that. Jayendra saraswathi even connected with dalits, visited their colonies, and in one particular incident at meenakshipuram in tirunelveli district, visited dalit people who had all converted to islam due to OBC atrocities and converted them back. The other vaishnava mutts kept to themselves and thus they were no threat to naicker’s hate mongering.
RC - dont go looking for logic with dravida stupidity. there is none. They do have volume and volumes of this same nonsense that xyz proffers, printed in books if you are still interested though.
on December 11, 2006 on 12:11 pm
reason/rc
There is truth in what you say as well.I am pointing out the “other” view point.I am not going to contest your remarks.They are insignificant in this context.I was`trying to explain the selective targets.and most importantly the mindset:the distinct cultural identity of the tamils.There is no reason for tamils to revolt.They have much in common with other indians.They are essentially pragmatic who want to extract the maximum leverage from weak central govts.rc is right when he says there is no groundswell of support for tamil eelam.
I dont have a theory to explain every facet of tamil life.But I stand by what i have said regarding the attitude of tamil mainstream politicians regarding language,reservations and how they view india.(with the possible exception of ADMK).this is no profound revelation either and is known to most perceptive persons in TN.
on December 11, 2006 on 12:20 pm
From the indifference of the central govt to this distortion of history in Tamil Nadu, one feels that Tamil Nadu has already seceded from the Indian union
on December 11, 2006 on 12:23 pm
We too ( neighbours to TN) quarrel regarding caste,customs etc.But we never go to this extrme level of violence and hatred.For example Lingayats of karnataka say that they are not Hindus etc .But they never attack Symbols of Hinduism.Similarly Ezzavas of kerala influenced by Narayana Guru are also not violent.In AP also the converted Hindus never try to attack symbols of Hinduism
Violence and hatred are part and parcel of present tamil culture.They might have acquired this synndrome because of lack of emotional IQ. In their older movies their heroes used to act with tons of emotion.But they can overcome this emotinal syndrome by joining hands with mainstram India after stop feeling their superiority in culture etc..
on December 11, 2006 on 1:29 pm
If this mess won’t be stopped it is goona lead to huge amount of tension in India TN particularly only god knows what politicans are upto
on December 11, 2006 on 1:30 pm
Tamil culture at present is *extremely* prone to fascist leanings. Every now and then, such incidents occur to remind one not to be too complacent about things in Tamil Nadu. I wouldn’t be too optimistic about TN remaining in India. In the heart of hearts the dream of all the D*K parties is an independent Tamil country, completely free of Brahmins and non-Tamils. If and when there is sufficient instability in India, they will take advantage of that opportunity and create it.
on December 11, 2006 on 2:25 pm
xyz,
“I am not going to contest your remarks.They are insignificant in this context”
You can choose to not contest or contest. But actual data that contradicts your explanations does not become ‘insignificant’ just because you say so.
on December 12, 2006 on 6:06 am
xyz/ Ramanan
The anxiety of the Brahmin community atleast in the state of TN is understandable. It is likely there is reverse discrimination going on in education and state employment. There is simply no way 96% of the state requires social justice in the form of hard quotas. However, in my view, things could have been worse. The Dravidian movement has kept the communists out of the picture. That is a huge plus in my book.
I would take a bit of ridicule and harassment - over lack of growth and jobs. Just ignore them with the worst contempt - and move on. There is freedom for the community to look after its own members. A tireless person like H.Raja of the BJP was not even able to get 10K votes from a so called brahmin area. Lakhs still patronize communist newspapers like the hindu. Look inside and you will find the answers.
on December 12, 2006 on 7:46 am
rc
tamil brahmin community is not homogeneous.It includes industrialists like the TVS family ,simpsons sivasailam and mallika (TAFE),India ,cements N.Sankar,N.Srinivasan(a close confidante of karunanidhi),owners of Hindu,founder of CTS lakshmi narayanan,mani ratnam,kamal haasan,owners of the tamil weekly Ananda vikatan.(All the above live in madras.) It is also a fact that tamil brahmins were the only brahmin sect which had ventured into business before economic liberalisation in 90s.(This was prompted both their confidence in independent india and the anti- brahmin movement).There are smart and wily tamil brahmins around.Perhaps there are more tamil brahmins than any other community among software professionals in bangalore.Large number of brahmin students migrated during 70s,80s and 90s to the west for better pastures.This was not due to reservation.
Aging mamas and mamis lead comfortable and contented lives in madras,listening to December kutcheries,secure in the knowledge that their children are doing well in the states.The brahmin angst is not shared by everyone.A substantial number found their way into the accounting profession as CAs (where there is no reservation).At the other end of the spectrum there are poor cooks and priests ,who struggle to eke out a living.There are numerous categories in between.
As i have debated in this forum for six months,even my view point has changed imperceptibly.After all,the brahmanas are a minority in TN.The feelings of envy in the heart of non brahmins seems understandable,though not justified.I agree wholeheartedly that ‘fat rich chettiar kids should not have the benefits of reservation’In the earlier period there was scarcity of seats and jobs and the heart burn was inevitable.
The point RC has been making, about criteria for determining backwardness be made transparent, should be our concern.we should not be sidetracked by other issues.
This is a complete U turn by me.I have been parroting again and again about the motivation of tamil politicians.After all ,karunanidhi has been in power at the centre for the last 10 years.This should have mellowed him.even ramadoss must be learning from his delhi experience,one hopes.Thousands of students from north are studying in madras.People do change with time.All said and done,tamilnadu is not kashmir.If the tamil leaders give up on chauvinism and become sensitive to people speaking other languages,(which i think wil happen) ,then the future augurs well.
How do I explain my U turn? There are more opportunities now than ever.The tamils themselves have benefited from central largesse in the UPA rule.The tamils have gained immense self confidence and knowledge because of reservation.Politically the threat from jaya is receding.Also TN has to engage rest of india.The tamil leaders realise that tamil nadu cannot break with india.If only they can tone down their chauvinism and develop respect for diversity,…
Many brahmanas have great regard for formal learning in languages,mathematics and physics.It is so difficult to stomach that some tamizharasan or anbazhagan is going to get admission in iits and central institutions claiming backwardness.We should ensure “fat chettier kids” do not get the benefit of reservation.
Modern life is not just about technology.It is also about capital,mass communication,marketing and a lot of other things far removed from academics.If brahmana kids have an opportunity to learn in decent schools and college,we should feel happy.
But the UPA govt ,which is worse than Aurangzeb according to PV indiresan,former director iit madras,may not even let that.
on December 12, 2006 on 8:23 am
Dear xyz,
I cant figure out what your message is- you want to say that since there is a handfull of influential tamil brahmins in chennai (who by the way are least interested in getting organised on the basis of caste) discrimination of brahmins in Tamil Nadu can continue for another 50 years without any visible effect. Please correct me if I am wrong. But the most telling effect is that the brahmins whose traditional vocation was teaching have been practically eradicated from all govt institutions be it school, college or university.
on December 12, 2006 on 10:26 am
We the Hindus from neighboring states are deeply hurt by the atheistic fundamentalism by Tamilians against Hindu gods.If you guys do not believe in Hinduism ,forget it.But dont hurt us.Please dont bring in Brahmins vs atheists etc.In the other south indian states Hindus spread across all castes unlike in TN.
on December 12, 2006 on 11:51 am
revathi,
i share your anguish.but what can be done? we can only hope that brahmin kids get an opportunity to learn in good schools and colleges.The world is so competitive.We need to respect and nurture talent.but in our country and particularly our state so many powerful people want to cut down to size talented and honest people.
on December 12, 2006 on 2:10 pm
The only thing is that the politicians will do any thing to get richer.
I. DIVIDE AND RULE
Divide they have done.
People into nations(india and pak)
Nation into linguistic states
States into religions pitted against one another
Religion ( majority Hindus) into SC/ST/OBC/MBC/rural SC/rural ST etc.
II. DESTROY AND RULE
First destroy the majority religion
yups so their sons and daughters can keep on ruling either directly or through proxy
on December 12, 2006 on 2:13 pm
funny and strange –> whatever these so called atheists do is predicted by the vedas to occur in kali yuga.
on December 12, 2006 on 2:17 pm
quote ” The Dravidian movement has kept the communists out of the picture. That is a huge plus in my book.”
yeah ….dravidian sounds better than communist !
but the communist wud never attack just one religion to enlarge their fat ugly tummies
on December 13, 2006 on 12:11 pm
Every cevil human being is his & condem such kind of barbaric act.All the Human rights groups ,Religious freedom groups orgnisation ,UN & Pseudosecular Indian Goprvernment are must stop this all barbrism against majority Hindus in India & bring the criminals & fundamintalist to justice.
on December 13, 2006 on 2:41 pm
revathi,if you are still listening
many indians are faculty members in prestigious universities in U.S.Those who are working in cutting edge technologies are teachers of tommorrow.If you have seen Sharan Sharma’s site, you will see that he is a teacher in his own right.Things are not that bad,though it is getting difficult for average guys and those at the margins.
On the other hand , one sees women venturing into apparel design,ad agencies,relocation services for foreigners and NRIs and so many other service sectors even in ‘conservative’ madras,which is no longer so conservative.
on December 13, 2006 on 2:54 pm
revathi,if you are still listening
many indians are faculty members in prestigious indian universities.Those who are working in cutting edge technologies could be the teachers of tommorrow.If you have seen Sharan Sharma’s site,you will see the teacher in him.There are so many dimensions to learning now.
Women are working in many new service areas ranging from apparel design , ad agencies, relocation services even in ‘conservative’ madras, which is no longer conservative.There is a certain momentum to this age ,which even dim witted persons like me can recogonise and this might overwhelm karu,ramadoss and co.We can not predict the future, but then no one else can either.
on December 13, 2006 on 4:18 pm
[...] Controversy about installing Periyar’s statue right in front of Srirangam temple is already in news. We must have have heard how some Hindus took matters in their hand and broke the statue. However, the story does not ends here. Another blog has a very detailed report on the temple, statue and media-censored aftermath. A friend of mine commented, “Hindus shouldnt have broken the statue!”. Well, to explain the ground realities read about the aftermath. It will prove the indifference of media as well the law when it comes to acts of terrorism against Hindu society on the land of Hindus. There were complaints lodged at all level against DK’s statue inauguration ceremony only in vain. It is no surprise that local residents had to do what they did with Periyar’s statue. In any case, the Indian English media once again proves its bias against Hindu society by blackening out the reports of terror against Hinduism while printing pages on Periyar’s statue incidence. [...]
on December 14, 2006 on 3:22 am
On top of that, a couple of days back, the shooting of the ‘Periyar’ movie was held **inside** the Varadarajaperumal temple, over the objections of temple authorities and devotees. Apparently the DK and DMK got the local police commissioner to give permission. I don’t think any other religion would allow a movie about its biggest opponent to be taken inside the premises of a sacred site. These are shameful times for the Hindu religion in Tamil Nadu. See http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/specials/cinema/shooting-spot/periyar_061213.html (report in Tamil) and http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B297215DF-6311-4247-B250-BE84287547FC%7D&CATEGORYNAME=TAMNA (in English)
on December 14, 2006 on 8:27 am
Thanks for all the encouraging comments. When I was younger and was barred from certain professions due to reservations it caused me a great deal of anguish. However, my dad consoled me saying that if you find your true vocation, no one can stop you. The fact that you didnt get into this or the other course meant that you werent sufficiently motivated to do so”. I realised that this was indeed the case and decided to change my line. Thanks to all the guidance my parents and teachers gave me, I am well settled in life. My advice to all those who feel discriminated is that ” the fact that you are competing in the general category in Tamil Nadu means that you have to be absolutely focused and put in your best effort. No one is out there to help you out and you have to use all the resources available both in India and abroad to make a place for yourself because you are going to need it. Good luck and may the force be with you”.
on December 14, 2006 on 1:11 pm
‘periyar’ film shooting:
how low can these bast.. s stoop? is there no limit to the depravity of karu? i have to eat my words.
on December 14, 2006 on 5:00 pm
Its about time the TAMIL hindus took a page out of UP HINDUS and also react. Why was there no mass protests in Chennai when this happened?
Imagine if this happend anywhere in the North of India. Tamil Hindus (esp Brahmins) either do not want to make a right a wrong or they want to flee their Land (tamil Nadu or India). They keep quoting parts from Gita and many Vedas ut rarely put them to practice when the sitation demands it.
TAMILs should also do something so that parties taht indulge in such activities will thinkl twice before doing such shameful activities.
on December 15, 2006 on 12:19 pm
I am from Brazil and never heard such atheistic terror movement like that. I admire a lot the hindu temples and gods and I hope this kind of atheist intolerance finds an end soon.
However, nice to see this blog with so interesting informations about India.
on December 15, 2006 on 12:33 pm
Hi there,
What did Periyar do?
Desecrate Rama’s idols! right!!!
Now see what is happening,his idols are getting desecrated,
further, why all the Furuore from the Dravidian Movement
Nothing has happened when Periyar’s statue is being desecrated,
if Rama does not live in Idols and Pictures,so does Periyar,
why all this Fuss?????
on December 17, 2006 on 4:52 pm
The Dravidian polity lacks the guts to tell publicly that all Hindus are their enemies.They know that it will ruin them.Instead, they choose to target the Brahmin population (which is less than 3% of the total TN pop.) through their malicious propaganda. Brahmins being a soft target won’t find anyone in political circles to defend them.(Contrary to the case of Muslims).
on December 18, 2006 on 4:37 am
I request tamil brahmin to be patient.
on December 18, 2006 on 4:33 pm
These sordid events should act as an eye-opener for the beseiged Hindu society - not oly in Tamil Nadu, but all over the country. Just look at how Muslim jihadis have been attacking with impunity Hindu temples, targeting all Hindu festivals, ambushing and killing innocent pilgrims going to Amarnath and Vaishno Devi. In this nefarious game plan of assaulting and denigrating Hindu identity of India the Jihadis, the communists and self-styled secularists (or atheists) are united. It is us, the comatose Hindus alone, who don’t recognise thismenacing reality.
The need of the hour is to unite all Hindus, all over the country, irrespective of caste discrimination and form a united front to fight back. Unless that is done these calculated attacks on Hindus will not cease.
In India a new dogmatic religion (eminently comparable to dogmatic Islam and super-dogmatic Marxism/communism) has been taking shape since independence. Its name is SECULARISM. Lakhs of Hindus, may be even a few crore, have wittingly or unwittingly, renounced their ‘Dharma’ and climbed on to the bandwagon of this new religion which is called SECULARISM. This new religion is out and out anti-Hindu, violently anti-Dharma and viciously aligned with radical Islam and obscurantist cult of Marxism /Communism. Hindus must unite and fight this diabolical menace which is hellbent on destroying the Hindu identity of India.
R.K. Ohri rkohri@airtelbroadband.in
on December 18, 2006 on 6:32 pm
I believe the first act of provocation was installing a confirmed atheist’s
statue outside the temple. That being said, one of the tactical response from the hindu organizations could have been to put a kind of screen (in temple land) so that Periyar statue is hidden from the temple. The people installing the Periyar statue can not question what the believers do in their land. That would have arguably started a nice discussion.
And, as a tamil non-brahmin Hindu from Tuticorin, I fail to understand why some of the educated tamils belonging to non-brahmin castes, recognize these atheist scoundrels while it is very well known that Periyar called Tamil Language and Tamil Culture as barbaric. So much for the much touted self-respect of this Tamil idealogues.
All said, I feel the current imbroglio could be well used by Hindu Community if it acts in unison to completely undermine the DK movement once and for all. If they mess with us, we’ll mess with them. Certainly, Tamil Hindus are more faithful to their Faith than the DK/DMK would like to give them credit for.
on December 18, 2006 on 7:06 pm
Thanks to Wed, Internet and Email Technologies, we simply need not depend and blindly follow the Anti-Hindu, Leftist and Pro-Muslim Indian media. More and more people are watching and visiting the genuine nationalistc news sources to know the news. (See below).
http://www.indiacause.com/
http://www.dailypioneer.com/
http://www.organiser.org/
http://www.newsinsight.net/
http://www.haindavakeralam.org
At the same time, all of us Hindus should stop buying the SECULAR news papers, which are always against India, Hindus and Hinduism. We should deprive them of money. When we buy their news papers, they are using the same money to write lies about us and supporting Terrorists like Afzal. Also, we should stop paying personal ads in those news papers.
on December 19, 2006 on 1:09 am
The events in TN are really outrageous. Is there a rule of law or not in TN. How low one should get in order for larger public outrage. The DK elements must be made pay for all the damage and anguish caused. DK organization must be made pay financially. It is high time industires start pulling out of this racist state of TN. That may put some sense in to these low lives.
on December 19, 2006 on 11:42 am
Let us forget casts etc among us.To hell with all casts.We have suffered enough.We are Hindus and this is Hindusthan and this is a Hindu Rashtra.Now first we proud hindus have to unite and then we have to Hinduise the seculars,xtians,muslims and communists . All anti-Hindu forces first have to be recognised and then tackled with a strong force and in a planed way. Recognise the parties ,political persons,and various organisations,which are anti hindus, and are harming hindu interests or Hindu unity.Pl read daily hinduunity.org thru anonymous.org search engine.hinduunity.org has been banned by our anti-hindu Govt. recently.
Another site is also worth reading ie faithfreedom.org run by 500 muslims
to liberate muslims of the world from the evil clutches of islam and koran.
So Hindus have to be united and also have to be ALERTED against
comunists,xtians,muslims, and most dangerous politically secular Hindus.
on December 21, 2006 on 6:31 pm
It is time to get rid of the so called secularism. let the Hindus say they are Hindus. Don’t bother. This is he fate Tamilnadu deserved it. It is because of the fact that they never get along with the national mainstream. Unless HIndus won’t fight for their cause, in future things will become more severe. Lets have our children the RSS education with modern needs being satisfied. Say yourself that I am a Proud Hindu. So am I.
on December 22, 2006 on 11:10 am
SHOOT EACH ND EVERY POLITICIAN…. and the youth SHOULD STIOP VOTING for anybody above the age 30…. BLODDY GREY HARIRED IDIOTS….
on December 22, 2006 on 7:02 pm
It is very disheartening to see none of the political leaders of the ruling party had codemended the act of dismantling many idols at the places of worship at various parts of the state. We all know that these set of rouges who are actually ruling the state would be very happy about the series of events that had taken place. We r fed up with these old foxes. Just imagine what would have happened if the same had taken place near a mosque or a church. I’m afraid the entire nation would have been burnt. These bloddy DK idiots are jobless and they do not have any other work other than critising our Hindu Culture. They have contributed nothing to the society other than conducting meetings just for the sake of scolding Bhrahmins.
Allowing to install a scoundrel’s(periyar) statue in front of the most holiest palce of Hindu religion itself is a mistake & moreover the wordings that are inscribed below the idiot’s(Periyar) statue is much more worse. It is actually a verbal crime commited on the followers of Hindu relegion or rather all those who have faith in god.
The DK party should be dissolved and be announced as a extremist party.We should teach the younger generation to follow our culture. We should lead by example. These DK scoundrels shouldn’t be allowed to speak adversly of any Hindus of this Country.
This is mainly because we neglect our own culture. We should be strong enough to reflect & follow our culture. Why do we hesitate to have the sacred ash & vermilion or the nama on the forehead which the is first & foremost duty of our culture. Is anybody going to kill us on doing this.
Let’s save our culture from these Jackals……. Let these Jackals howl in the forest…… to hell with these people. We r Hindus… Say Vande Mataram… Bharath mata ki jai…
on December 26, 2006 on 7:46 pm
Looks like all the people who wrote comments earlier against Periyar and the Tamil culture or some even the Tamil language are all educated. I wonder if they are really educated. None of them seem to know the proper history of how the dravidian movement started. They only look at the point that Periyar was against brahmins… Periyar was never against any individual he was against brahminism. If you don’t know what that is please read up on it instead of getting angry at something you don’t even understand. Think of the years of oppression of the women and the low caste people… I am from a low caste family. I am proud to say that Periyar is my hero. I am educated and in a good position only because of Periyar and the dravidian movement… I am from a village where the low caste people are not allowed to enter the ‘MIGHTY Aghragharam’. So Don’t tell me about how it feels to be oppressed.
I am glad the Periyar movie is coming out. The truth should be told. The guy who is taking this movie was the same guy who took the Bharathiyar movie… He did extensive research doing the other movie… It is not like a periyar follower doing the movie.
I also hate all the politicians beginning from Ghandhi and Nehru. They are not that different from the politicians who are emerging now.
Who ever that Srinivas guy was… who said some bad comments about someone’s language…. You have no right to talk about other’s language… For a true tamilian their pride is their language. you don’t have to agree with any one… but insulting others?? I am not sure how people like you go on living….
I don’t believe in God… but I also don’t like people destroying temples and priests or Periyar statues also for that matter… People who do these acts are very stupid and don’t have anything else to do in their lives… I don’t understand why it is a shocking news that the Kanchi priest accused in this matter… He was already in jail for committing murder and other disgusting acts…
So all I ask you people who are so happy to comment about periyar and his movement.. do so after reading up the history and knowing the facts.. All I see in all your comments is hatred against the Tamil non brahmins… having that kind of hatred is kind of a sickness.
Anyway I ask all of you to watch the movie once it comes out and be truthful and accept things for what they are… No one is perfect. Get the hatred out of yourself and look at humans as humans… That is what Periyar wanted… Everyone is equal and should be treated equal.. is that too much to ask? Apparently so…
on December 27, 2006 on 3:47 pm
Indian,
You seem to have a lot of pent up anger. Do you support a separate Dravid nation?
I am all for historical facts to come out but you know it as well as everyone else how that happens. For instance, as a person not very up to date on Tamil history, I have to take your words at the same value as the following article:
http://www.tamilnation.org/forum/shanranjit/dravidian.htm
Are people being treated equal in TN? Why are so many Dravidian parties? Who are getting the true benefits?
on December 27, 2006 on 9:10 pm
India always suffered from bigotry and hate for each other. When the departing English could not find anything in South India to promote their divide and rule policy, they invented the brahmin and non brahmin concept for division. The Madras presidency with headquaters in Madras made Tamil as the pricipal language to the rest of south india. The notorious Miller report did the mischief in portraying Brahmins as the oppressors and the non brahmins as opressed. Naicker a kannada speaking man from Erode had no following before, but suddenly became a messaih for non brahmin tamils to take revenge on Brahimins. The Tirunalveli iyers had done some mischief in illtreating the non brahmins. This enabled Naiker who called himself as Periyar (big brother in Tamil) to instigate the mejority non brahims against the minority brahmins. Tamil Nad kicked out many brahmin families who found shelter in Karnataka and most of them in Bangalore. However these kicked out brahmins brought their tamil bigotery with them and poor Kannadigas had to pay a price. Even today these tamil buggers are dominating in Bangalore. The chappal garlending of Periyavar of Kanchi mutt portrait, the vandalising of Brahmin mutts an their properties were all a result of this conflict. This spread to neighbouring Karnataka,then called Mysore state. Even the Maharaja was influenced to appoint the first Vokkaliga by name Boranna Gowda from Hassan as his diwan. The Goundars from Coimbatore and the Gowdas of Mysore joined hands to become a united front for non brahmins. The Nadars,Mudaliars,Chettiars and others became the second group of non brahmins. The infighting between saivaite and vyshnavites weakened the Brahmin front. The flight of well qualified brahmins first to North India an later to west is still continuing.
on December 28, 2006 on 4:38 am
Just bcos brahmins discriminated against other people hundreds of years ago, why should the current brahmins suffer from majorities? Senseless it is.
Britishers captured us, killed many of us, oppressed us, treated us badly just 60 years ago. Are we spreading hatred against them or the West in general? Aren’t we at peace with them, having good business and cultural relationship with them? People who do anti brahminism do not attack or hate any british tourist accusing them of dominating us 60 years ago.
Brahmins have fought for the country. Many of them have directly or indirectly contributed to the freedom movement. Bharathiar, VVS Iyer, Rajaji, S.Radhakrishnan to name a few.
If Periyar feels castes shouldn’t matter, why does he talk about brahmin caste? He did say all castes are equal, but he also wanted one caste to be discriminated against. It’s ironical and periyar is a CASTEIST!
on December 28, 2006 on 7:49 am
>> I am educated and in a good position only because of Periyar and the dravidian movement… >>
How ? Are you referring to the quota system ?
In any case, let us assume the brahmins are pure evil. It does not in any way change the requirement that social justice policies must be framed only on solid data. All Periyar followers cannot be automatically considered “socially and educationally backward” and therefore classified as OBC. This would create a vested interest in claiming to be a Periyar follower independent of his ideology.
on December 28, 2006 on 8:04 am
Nagaraj Rao,
The roots of the dravidian movement can be traced to the Justice Party. It had nothing to do with the backward castes. It was simply a case of forward castes such as (Reddiars, Mudaliars, Naidus, Chettiars) jostling for power with other forward castes (Iyers, Iyengars, Raos - the brahmins).
Backwardness came into the picture only in 1950 after the first amendment. It was decreed that communal quotas were illegal and now a caste must actually be “socially and educatinally backward” to avail of special benefits. There was unfortunately no clear definition of “socially and educationally backward”.
This allowed any community to made an awkward trade. In exchange for calling themselves “backward” they got preferential access to medical and other education. If one community did it, others saw its benefits and wanted in on the action too. They stood to lose if they did not play the game. The genes for “claiming backwardness” thus spread though the gene pool.
This brings us to the state of affairs today. The Rajputs of Rajasthan are the latest to be wanted to be classified as OBC. Why not ? In the absence of data, anything goes.
on December 28, 2006 on 8:52 am
The hatred and killing will reduce if the kids get proper education. Caste is EVIL! Periyar is EVIL! No statues of humans are reqd in India, not on public places. If some organization needs statue, let them install in their own private space.
on December 30, 2006 on 5:20 am
The kicked out TN Brahmins living in Bangalore also show this Tamil biogetry,While recruiting employess,they give preference to Tamil brahmins first ,then to other Tamilians and lastly to others.You can clealy see their cultural biogetry,
Iam not against any language.I apologise to Indian if he is hurt.But TN should respect other languages too which is not the case.Also it has no right to show disrespect to Hindu gods.If you guys have problems with fellow tamil brahmins it is your problem.Dont hurt our sentiments.
on December 31, 2006 on 2:00 pm
Dear Srinias,
I dont understand your comment. The tamil-kannada friction as far as I know involves Kaveri and Veerappan. I dont know how tamil brahmins were connected to these issues. Perhaps you have something against
CV Raman, R.K. Narayan and ShriShri Ravishankar.
Revathi
on January 1, 2007 on 12:58 pm
Revathi,
Our culture always respects and admires great people irrespective of their caste and state.
Irrespective of caste ,most of the TN people(including settlers in other states) treat the other dravidian languages as inferior to Tamil and they always try to convince others about their superior culture etc..This really hurts others and creats a negative impression.I request TN people to realize their folly and join the main stream.
Tamil is a great language along with kannada,Telugu and malayalam.
on January 2, 2007 on 2:08 pm
I don’t want anyone to take my comments for the truth… You want to know the truth you do your own research was my point. I don’t have any pent up anger against any one.
Periyar did not call himself Periyar and Periyar does not mean big brother. This is exactly what I am talking about… don’t talk about things as if you know it all. Periyar’s title was given to him by women. Please find out the facts before blabbering.
I am not in a good position because of any quotas. I never had any special treatments. None of the females before my generation had gone to school. Other girls in my age group in my village were not educated. Because my father, who was a follower of Periyar, I am educated today.
What Periyar said was think about people are saying without blindly following it. He said that in every meeting to things he said also.
Please do understand why the dravidian movement happenned. I will tell you what used to happen in my village. People (non brahmins) were given chores by the brahmins to do with out any pay. If the don’t obey them they were let go at that time and lot of silent things were done to ruin that disobient’s life… like turning the local police against that person… Was that fair? Was it wrong to bring people to light at that period? That was what periyar did. If you think that was wrong… there is something totally wrong with you as a human being.
I am still saying the same thing… research on what you are going to comment on. How many of you commenting against Periyar have read a book on him?
When Ghandhi and Periyar met once, Ghandi asked Periyar why he is alwyas bad mouthing the brahmins… To that Periyar asked Ghandhi to point to some brahmins who are good. Ghandhi pointed to one person.. For that Periyar said.. even a mahatma like you can only find one good brahmin for a dhurathama like me… I can’t find any was the reply.
Again, I ask all of you to look at the history.. and read up on what went on instead of bad mouthing any one or anyone’s action. I have no problem with any of you just the irrational comments you are making.
on January 2, 2007 on 2:25 pm
To rc,
What I meant about you could be a Periyar follower even if you don’t believe in God. Just because you don’t agree with one point some one says doesn’t mean that you disagree with everything he says. I am not saying who ever is a follower of Periyar has to belong to certain class…
What I meant is treating everyone equal, educating the poor and try to live a caste free life.
I know of some brahmin ladies who won’t eat in other people’s house… One such despicable lady came to my house along with her daughter in law (who was my friend) I offered them something as that was my family habit. My friend took it and the MIL didn’t want it.. I was being polite and asked her if she wanted something else instead and she rudely told me that she won’t eat at houses like mine…. I had to show her the door and call my friend to apologize later. My friend being a North Indian didn’t quite understand what her MIL was doing. It was very disgusting. My friend described to me how filthy her MIL keeps her house and her daily cleaning routines are. This didn’t not happen in some remote village. This happenned 2 years back in the United States of America. What do you all say to this?
I also have lot of friends who are brahmins… I look at them only as human beings and a fellow Indian… As far as I have seen only brahmins go around saying that they are brahmins and acting very proud being a brahmin… Please do let me know if I am wrong…
on January 2, 2007 on 7:02 pm
I am still saying the same thing… research on what you are going to comment on. How many of you commenting against Periyar have read a book on him?
Why should I read about Periyar? There is no relevance for Periyar where I come from, even from the perspective of the social reforms you are talking about. They were done much before Periyar came into existence, by other dudes. Even trying to read didn’t help, because if I read any contrarian remark you will not like it.
My specific question to you is that do you support a Dravidian nation?
My only gripe is that the sob stories you narrate has no relevance for my region. I don’t see why 75% people from your state should get benefits at a national level. At a state level, feel free to do as you please.
on January 2, 2007 on 7:13 pm
To BarbarIndian,
I am not for any seperate nation in TN. Just equality and justice is what I want for everyone not just people in TN. Thanks for the nice article you pointed out… That is the pathetic state of TN whether anyone acknowledges it or not. Every politician is after money. Periyar was not like that… he left his rich family and suffered for humanity.
How much ever everyone talks about this… bottom line is people are still not treated right. People never accept the rebels initially.. What Martin Luther King was wrong???? How is Periyar’s movement any different??
to Nagaraj Rao,
The british did not come up with Brahmins and non Brahmins. I am sorry that was a little funny how you came up with that. It goes back way before the british rule. Please find out some information before your comments..
I keep posting comments here knowing that my comments are most unwelcome….. but I want everyone to understand from where it all started and how unfair things are still in India…
Let us all come together and try to be good humans…
on January 2, 2007 on 7:20 pm
BarbarIndian,
I am not sure what region you belong to… My SOB story was every non brahmins sob story. So for people in my region the movement Periyar created was very important and very valuble… Only people who suffered can understand what went on… I ONLY TOLD MY SOB STORY SO PEOPLE LIKE YOU CAN RELATE TO IT. Looks like you are too shallow of a person to be in other person’s shoes for a few seconds…
Also please point me to some of the DUDES you mentioned that already did those reforms in your region.. And you yourself are agreeing to Periyar as a person of reforms…
Your comments seem very selfish and a person like you will never care for others or even try to understand others problems…. It is really too bad..
on January 2, 2007 on 7:26 pm
BarbarIndian,
I am not sure of what 75% of benefits my state is getting… please explain
on January 2, 2007 on 7:27 pm
>> What I meant is treating everyone equal, educating the poor and try to live a caste free life. >>
Absolutely.
However, you cannot lead a caste free life - if caste is used as the central criterion to confer special rights on groups of people. These special rights are acceptable for SCs and STs. When you talk about OBCs - we must have solid data about the social and educational backwardness. Anecdotes cannot be a substitute.
I have read about Periyar, including many of his speeches. If Periyar has liberated you / your community - that is great. I have nothing against that. This cannot be used to confer special rights by law to a caste or set of castes. The dravidian movement has done just that.
About the mother-in-law anecdote.
I agree the lady is anachronistic, perhaps even rude or insulting. You did the right thing by showing her the door. You are free to publicize this event and tear down the deplorable customs of these people. What you cannot do is : to use these examples to take detours from Article 14 of the constitution (the right to equality). Even though the lady is obnoxious and pompous, she deserves the exact same laws as an enlightened person like yourself.
The most obnoxious man as well as the most righteous man must be treated equally under the law. This is the cornerstone of modern civilization. If this is not to be, then who will judge righteousness !
on January 2, 2007 on 7:28 pm
Your comments seem very selfish
I don’t see why I shouldn’t be selfish. I haven’t done anything illegal in my life. To the best of my knowledge, my ancestors up to several generations ago never hurt any Dalit/OBC or whomsoever.
I have played by the rules. If you want to change the game, there better be some logic behind it. If people are still not treated right by someone else, please identify and penalize them.
By the way, are Dalits treated okay in TN? Also, why are there several Dravidian parties?
on January 2, 2007 on 7:33 pm
I am not sure of what 75% of benefits my state is getting… please explain
You are distorting my statement. I said 75% of people from your state are getting benefits. By that I mean reservation benefits. Read about it on this very blog, which is the first one to run this expose. Now it is common knowledge.
on January 2, 2007 on 7:38 pm
By the way, it looks like the famed Periyar movie will be subsidized by TN government to the tune of 95 lakhs. So much for public support.
on January 2, 2007 on 7:59 pm
rc,
I some what agree with you.. that is why I said… TRY to live a caste free life.
I can also understand that upper caste people’s anger towards the lower caste people gettign quotas and other things… This is my explanation for it.. See a brahmin family who was educated all along have a good education backgournd and have the knack of scoring better in exams and other things while a SC or others who don’t have the similar backkgorund will never come up. That was the original intention of quotas… I understand that now the background has to be checked thoroughly to give such quotas… I am for what ever is fair…
I understand that people might abuse this… I even know of Brahmins trying to change their ceritificates showing them as SC’s… You guys are only looking at major cities and places like that… The people who really should benefit from these rules are the downtrodden ones in the inner villages. If equal rules prevail for them also.. do you think they will come out of their misery ever? I don’t think so…
I really do understand that it seems unfair… but fairness never existed for the suppressed and the poor…
I am all ears if you have some suggestions for these problems… And also I think you are mocking me by calling me the enlighted one… That is really okay… if I can get across some point today.. I will live with any mockery..
on January 2, 2007 on 8:06 pm
BarbarIndian,
I was only commenting about Periyar since people were calling him an idiot and this and that in this forum… I am not sure if we both are talking about the same thing…
Dalits are not treated properly still in India.. that is what I am trying to say… That is why I am supporting Periyar and his views so others will see the issue here…
Since you don’t care much about TN and its people.. why do u care about the 95 lakhs? it is not your tax money…
And you are sure that none of your ancestors hurt anyone?!?!…. Come on! what is your proof? Anyway I find no use in talking a selfish person like you !!
Have a good life!!! I mean it in the most sincere way!
on January 2, 2007 on 8:36 pm
>> If equal rules prevail for them also.. do you think they will come out of their misery ever? I don’t think so… >>
I dont think so either.
Therefore the social policies must be targeted specifically to “poor oppressed people from interior villages”. The dravidian movement put the focus of social justice on the non-beneficiaries (the brahmins), which is patently wrong. Let the brahmins go to hell (so to speak) - they are outside the social justice net. The focus must be on the beneficiaries.
Are all castes within the OBC groups getting benefits in a fair manner ?
Why are Nari Kuravars and Isay Velallars classified together as MBC ? Do you think the Nari Kuravars (who still hunt small animals not as a hobby but for food) stand a chance in that group ? I have a story about a Narikurava student in this blog somewhere, read it.
TN does not exclude the creamy layer (thanks to Jayalalithas antics), this has literally deprived thousands of poor backward students to benefit from quotas from the same “interior villages”. All dravidian parties are against identifying the creamy layer. Care to explain why ?
Finally, if no data about backwardness is forthcoming, it can be assumed that reverse-discrimination is passing off as social justice in that state. The brahmins have a legitimate grievance because there are lakhs who are dirt poor (priests, cooks, those who make pickles and other condiments, small time astrologers).
Sorry, I didnt mean to jab at you when I said “enlightened like you”. Substitute with “enlightened like us”.
on January 3, 2007 on 3:52 am
From what I read about Periyar, I can only respect the dude. There is a lot of noise on both sides which I have chosen to ignore.
Protest caste based prejudices? Good. Elevate status of women? Good. Speak out against discrimination and ill treatment? Great. Critique the jingoistic and ritualistic/superstitious aspects of religions? Great again.
These are all well accepted humanistic principles that are undisputed. The trouble begins when people start using the legacy to further their nasty ambitions.
If you want to protect Periyar being called bad names, you have to restrict his legacy to the original purpose. When people start using the name beyond its scope, expect some feathers to be ruffled. As simple as that.
on January 3, 2007 on 1:50 pm
rc,
I agree with you to a great extend…. I don’t think any politician of today cares about the general mass.
The only reason I wrote in this forum was I couldn’t take it when Periyar’s name being tarnished like that.
Since the time of Periyar a lot of things have changed. But still the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The politicians be it JJ or MK or anyone for that matter should start caring for the upcoming of the people to a great extend.. They are mostly interested in getting back at each other and putting up ugly fights. Something drastic should happen.. every class should be reanalyzed… but who is willing to do that? Everyone wants to gain as much as they can in the short period they are going to be in power… People in general should develop an open mindedness.
I don’t want any brahmins or non brahmins to go to hell in the sense rc mentioned.
I am sure you remember when the DMK came to power they came up with all caste people could offer poojas at temples… What is wrong with that idea? Why did so many people get upset over that issue… Also when ADMK came to power they came up with the rule that there should be no sacrificies in the temples.. What is wrong with that idea? Why did so many protest?
I think education for all is what is needed… No kid should be working… Education will get them out of their low social status.. I do a lot of sponspor ships for education in India… I don’t look at their caste… just the family income. Many people have approched us (I have rejected some of those people not based on caste.. but on their qualification and their financial status).
I think well off people like us should have an open mindedness and should be willing to take on some societial responsibility instead of bickering at each other and hoping the politicians will change. Slowly things will change.
on January 3, 2007 on 8:53 pm
It seems that a lot of people that are poor and uneducated still see their poverty to be related with the atrocity of a phantom community such as brahmins who have neither the number nor the money power to act. It is similar to the germans who thought that if they got rid of the jews all their problems of unemployment would be solved. When all the jews were actually gone they ran out of scape goats and had to attack the real problem. So may be the people in TN will try and do some introspection now that they dont even have a dead horse to flog.
on January 5, 2007 on 3:09 pm
Revathi,
I think the main reason that the Nazi’s wanted to get rid of the Jews was because they thought the Nazi’s thought they were of a superior race the Aryas. Because Hitler hated the Jews and wanted Germany to be full of the Aryan race. They were literally trying to pick people with blond hair and green eyes to be included in the aryan race. This is what I learned from my high school teacher in the US.
I don’t think anyone is after the poor old brahmins who are suffering or atleast that was not the intention. It is a widely known fact that the Shankarachari controls a lot of things that goes on the political side. The only reason he ended up in the jail a while ago was some personal tiff between him and JJ. At one point the big actors and all had to pay regular visits to him to keep themselves from being raided.
So everything that is going on is a political game where the poor are suffering whether it is a brahmin or a non brahmin.. I really do hope everyone understands this simple fact and it is not about killing the helpless brahmins..
on January 11, 2007 on 3:44 am
I think Indian is a DMK/DK troll. Who is oppressing the Dalits today in TN? Who is cutting their heads off in Theni, Coimbatore? The problem is Brahmans are a soft target since they try to avoid conflict as much as possible. I can relate many instances of discrimination myself. My father had his sacred thread cut off in Kumbakonam, my grandmother was threatened with removal of her nine-yard saree by cockroach DK activists, my sister was denied a govt job by a DK activist, and I was denied admission in Anna University and made fun of in another private OBC run college and asked if I had any Brahman sisters for giving company. If I had been a Muslim, there would have been a suicide bomb mission at DMK headquarters. I hate the TN govt so much it hurts physically sometimes. And all of them are like this Indian, poisonous snakes everywhere who keep spreading malicious propaganda and are directly responsible for the ethnic cleansing that is going on. This Periyar inspired hatred has crushed TN Brahmans, and the oppression of Dalits still goes on in TN. Someday with all the anger that is burning inside, the sea will rise and there will be a great Tsunami which will come and sweep away that wretched land of TN forever. Everyone, of all castes in that blighted land should perish and it should forever be under the sea.
on January 11, 2007 on 4:35 am
This kind of hatred between brahmins and atheists is peculiar to TN.Why this is not happening in other parts of India?What inference can we make?Three possibilities
1.Because of the extreme hot conditions in TN, people in general hate fellow beings.
2.Tamil brahmins were so supressive that a section of the atheists bacame a bunch of hate mongers.
3.The atheists in other states are more balanced and they oppose only ritualistic part of brahminism and not the brahmin as a fellow human being.
There should be a reason why this is not the case in other states.Don’t stereotype and say that tamil culture is graet etc..
on January 11, 2007 on 4:42 am
After reading the post by Brahman (if it is true) i felt sorry for him.May be it is high time for Tamil brahmins in villages and small towns to convert to Islam/christianity .Then even karunanidhi and co will come to them for their votes.They can consider this option if they are in serious trouble..
on January 11, 2007 on 6:41 am
srinias,
You are correct. This is a social phenomenon that is beyond my comprehension. TN brahmins were not oppressive by any stretch of the imagination. They did not even control the rural economy - most did not own much land. The most oppressive brahmins without doubt were the Namboodiris of Kerala. Yet, in Kerala there is harmony and no hatred towards that community.
Why is TN still the land of hatred towards this community ?
This is my best guess - the anti-brahminism in TN was a reaction to the “communal GO” being knocked out by the newly independent India. This cause deep res