Reality Check India

OBC Quota bill passed LS – creamy layer to benefit

Posted in Uncategorized by realitycheck on December 15, 2006

This is along expected lines, no one wants to touch this hot potato. The politicians want the Supreme Court to clean up the mess. Bloggers Apollos’ take

Here is the story http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=78191

It was never about us now , was it ?

cwork.jpg

By keeping the creamy layer in – the real intentions of the UPA government are out in the open. The government better make sure this workers sons do not take up arms.  Yes, there will be stone throwing, train burning, like you have not seen before.

It was always about sons and daughters of educationalists, professors, politicians, doctors, lawyer, judges. 

Folks like this woman are just props or serve as video footage at film festivals at Venice or Milan. The wretchedness of their slums and their deprivation end up as wallpapers and banners.

Social justice indeed !

Pic source : The South Asian journal

Only two voices spoke against it – most of the OBC politicians lauded the bill and wanted more. All MPs from TN cheered because the creamy layer was kept in (73% of TN is other backward classes )

” Tathagata Satpathy (BJD MP from Dhenkanal, Orissa) who opposed it. He asking the government and the House to reconsider the Bill and called it a “regressive and reactionary step”. “

“BJP’s Santosh Gangwar asked for examining the list of OBCs which have grown from 2,000 to 6,000-odd communities. “

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18 Responses

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  1. srinias said, on December 15, 2006 at 7:26 am

    Great victory for South indian OBC Politicians who felicitated Arjun singh yesrday.The Govt may opt for constitutional amendment to check Supreme court.The poor people among sections not covered under the reservation category will suffer.As they constitute a minority the politicians do not care.Options left for them
    1Pressuriese the local Govt to recognise their castes as OBC..
    2.Join other religions and start educational institutions as minorities
    3Take up professions which do bot need any higher education.

    Not much hope for them..OBC rule is about to start at national level. SC/ST continue to suffer even after change of power.They may suffer even more.

  2. rc said, on December 15, 2006 at 7:58 am

    Thanks for the comment Srinias -

    The focus is now off the dalits – for whom the quota system was intended.

    By equating themselves with the SCs, the OBCs have snatched the centrestage from the Dalits. OBCs do no seem to agree to measurement tests for backwardness for each caste, where as Dalits do. In that respect, OBCs have an even more liberal program than that for Dalits. Some OBC castes (esp in the south) are well educated and dominate the social scene (film stars, producers, directors), own TV Channels, and newspapers, own universities. Dalits do not have such social standing (quick show me a Dalit hero or a Dalit owner of a star hotel).

    It is a victory for the TN politicians, but I dont think it is their end goal. The real target for them is faculty quotas in IITs, IISc, AIIMS. This will enable tweaking with the exams and selection process. You can hear repeated statements from dravidian leaders about how many brahmins are in IISc and IITs.

  3. SecularProgressive said, on December 15, 2006 at 3:47 pm

    I completely support the bill excluding the creamy layer. If anyone supports the creamy layer reservation please give a valid explanation.

  4. srinias said, on December 16, 2006 at 4:45 am

    I really pity IITs and IIMs.They will loose their rankings.So far you dont have srtikes ,demonostartions etc in those institutes.Once OBCs enter in big numbers, the political parties and their affialited student unions and caste unions enter in to these organisations.They will become like other universities where elections are fought on ideologies and political affiliations. God (substitute periyar for Atheists)only can save these institutes.China is going to beat india all ends up if we kill our premier institutions.Any way we decided.

  5. अफ़लातून said, on December 17, 2006 at 2:24 pm

    Isn’t there a creamy layer of the unreserved category too ? No rider for them ?Creamy layer within OBCs shall get the benefit in the beginning.They are the contending force to replace a kind of monopoly.We may categorise OBCs into two sections : OBC and Most Backward Classes.

  6. Mahesh said, on December 17, 2006 at 5:08 pm

    Yes Offcourse. Stupids rule, indeed.Shortly, expect a caste-based quota in Indian Cricket Team.

  7. rc said, on December 18, 2006 at 6:26 am

    >> Isn’t there a creamy layer of the unreserved category too ? No rider for them ? >>

    The unreserved category is open competition. Laws of natural justice apply to this category. In this category, a higher score *always* beats a lower score – no exceptions.

    Everyone SC/ST/OBC gets to compete in this category following the natural rules (more marks beats less marks). This is not a quota for forward castes, it is a quota for open competition.

    If there was a communal quota for forward castes – then the creamy layer among forward castes must be excluded. We do not have any such quota, so the question is moot.

  8. [...] Recently, the Indian Lok Sabha (545 members) assembled to pass the so called “Central Educational Institutions - Reservations in Admissions Bill”. Not one dared to call into question the fundamental workings of the OBC category. “On what basis does a caste X come to be classified as OBC, and on what basis does it remain to be so”. None of the Bengali politicians did not care about why only 6 out of 100 Bengalis are eligible for the newly created seats. For all its talk about creamy layer, the CPM did not push the matter. The most backward Muslims in WB/Assam will not get OBC benefits, but the richest Muslims from Kerala (Mallapuram) and TN will.  Judge for yourself the quality of the debate. Read more here (select Session 9 and Date 14/12/2006) [...]

  9. afloo said, on December 18, 2006 at 9:11 pm

    ” The unreserved category is open competition. Laws of natural justice apply to this category. In this category, a higher score *always* beats a lower score – no exceptions.”
    - Some have more ‘natural justice’ than the others.Usually they are the ones who score more ,have friends or relations in the interview boards and ofcourse aren’t in anyway the underdogs.

  10. afloo said, on December 18, 2006 at 9:15 pm

    ” Everyone SC/ST/OBC gets to compete in this category following the natural rules (more marks beats less marks).”
    - If this rule is changed it would be a 50 percent reservation for the forwards.

  11. rc said, on December 19, 2006 at 3:44 am

    >> Some have more ‘natural justice’ than the others.Usually they are the ones who score more ,have friends or relations in the interview boards and ofcourse aren’t in anyway the underdogs >>

    Yes sir. The open competition is a dog eat dog world. That is the way of nature. Our constitution has set aside 50.5% for the “great rat race”. All forward castes, rich or poor have to fight to make it here or they go home.

    If some candidates are denied admission due to factors like nepotism or corruption. There must be sufficient safeguards or recourse to legal remedy.

  12. rc said, on December 19, 2006 at 3:51 am

    Afloo,

    Think about our quota system this way. I am sure you already know it.

    We set aside 50.5% for the “great rat race”. Natural justice trumps anything here. This means more marks always beats less marks.

    We also set aside 49.5% for all our social experiments put together.The idea is to bring in the really backward into the mainstream. In this quota, natural justice plays second fiddle. First we apply social justice and divide this 49.5% into groups SC/ST/OBC or like in some states such as KA SC/ST/1A/1B/2A/2B/etc. Natural justice is then applied to members within each group. So in this quota it is social justice (read caste) first, marks next.

    Since the forward castes have no programs for them, we cannot talk meaningfully about a creamy layer criterion for them.

  13. Barbarindian said, on December 19, 2006 at 3:56 pm

    A creamy layer for the privileged morphs into communism. That is the only natural course.

    There can be only two justifications for quotas. Discrimination and Economic depravity. The first was the original US affirmative action. Blacks were not given quotas because they were poor. They were given quotas because there was a credible threat of admission/job being denied. Of course, later on the pro-aff people started to add as many facets to bolster their argument as possible, i.e. blacks are poor, they have illiterate parents, the question papers are designed for whites etc.

    The second, i.e. the economic argument is basically the communist argument. Merit is a five letter word.

    The genius of Indian politicians is that they have concocted a mix of these two and using this they can target vote-banks in a much more focused manner.

  14. Barbarindian said, on December 19, 2006 at 6:12 pm

    This is off topic but so incredible that I couldn’t help posting it:

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/Cities/Pune/IAS_failures_should_have_other_opportunities_panel/articleshow/825803.cms

    With just 25 students from Maharashtra being selected for the IAS in 2005, even as an estimated 1.5 lakh people appeared for the written examination, a group of bureaucrats has suggested initiatives, which could bring other jobs for the unsuccessful IAS aspirants.

    The bureaucrats have suggested that since the lakh-plus IAS aspirants had put in more than a year’s effort, they should be exposed to other job opportunities in case they do not make it to the IAS grade.

  15. afloo said, on December 20, 2006 at 7:51 pm

    rc,
    Marks quantify a single faculty of our mind.Our society reserves work with pen and spade for two different categories.This leads to merit and demerit in both the groups.The first section is less meritorious in manual and skilled work.Our education system widens the gap between the spade and the pen further.If each group is given exposure and training in the faculty which is week in it,a better result for the society as whole shall emerge.
    In Institute of Technology,BHU, 2nd Year (Mechanical) students had a ‘job’ of assembling a three-speed bicycle hub.The teacher used to just draw the cross-sectional diagram on the black-board and didn’t touch the hub.Students used to pay a cycle-mechanic twenty-five rupees who explained them how to assemble it by actually doing the job.The cycle-mechanic had he been given a chance for studies and the lecturer being trained in actually assembling by hand could provide ‘total efficiency’ of the society as whole.Resrevation is a small and necessary towards this goal.

  16. Barbarindian said, on December 20, 2006 at 10:09 pm

    It is good to read this sort of perverse arguments on the web, highly entertaining.

    Actually, civilization has progressed because spade and pen have been separated forever. It is called specialization, God forbid we should go back to the days of commune living.

    In most Engineering colleges there are workshops and foundries and the workers there are far more skilled than the students. Students do some practicals there, purely to understand certain features about real life work.

    If we needed schools which required students to become proficient in both designing and assembling internal combustion engines, they would exist. As a matter of fact, the numerous polytechnic schools do just that.

    If the idea catches on that the IIT student needs to be highly skilled as a foundry worker as well, we should have that built into the entrance test.

    By the way, the cycle mechanic will perhaps never be able to benefit from the current reservations anyway, especially if the creamy layer is not excluded. So there.

  17. rc said, on December 21, 2006 at 5:06 am

    >> The cycle-mechanic had he been given a chance for studies and the lecturer being trained in actually assembling by hand could provide ‘total efficiency’ of the society as whole.Resrevation is a small and necessary towards this goal. >>

    I absolutely agree. Let me give you another anecdote – electronic engg final year students in KA/TN get some kid in the electronics spare parts street to do their final year project for them. However, this does not in anyway relate to caste based reservations. A totally tangential argument.

    The real question is “If the cycle mechanic wanted to pursue a formal degree – what are the obstacles he is likely to face ?”

    The obstacles are in my view (in order)
    1. Lack of primary education (he cant clear any exams)
    2. Economic issues (cant stay away from cycle shop for long)
    3. For some SCs (only) – let me stress again some SCs only – discouragement or even physical oppression from surrounding castes.

    We have criminally neglected the top two important issues.

    The third one is tricky because you need to identify exactly which castes suffer this kind of physical humiliation as a whole. You simply cannot extend benefits of (3) to dominant castes. That is the crux of the issue.

  18. [...] the Indian Lok Sabha (545 members) assembled to pass the so called “Central Educational Institutions – Reservations in Admissions Bill”. Not [...]


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