Comments on: SC verdict tomorrow

By: Reason

Reason — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 03:44:00 +0000

RC,
>> People dont just vote for cute lookin rustic jokers. They vote for cute lookin jokers who can deliver concrete benefits.

Well said. But isn’t it a tad out-of-form/unfair to criticize the common man who votes for idiots on such narrow interests?
But I am glad you said it

Barb,
>> A person who is socially and educationally backward can hardly aspire to secure even cut off marks in a tough entrance examination.

There might be valid reasons to be cynical, and you did qualify that with ‘hardly’, but your own blog has examples that contradict this. I have seen several news items about really ‘Backward’ folks coming up on their own or with litlte dependence on quotas voicing anti-quota opinions. One such is here – of Sarathbabu who went to BITS Pilani from a slum in Madras – http://in.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/31spec.htm

So if a truly backward from Madras went to Pilani, for whom is the Dravida 69% reservation working?

By: Barbarindian

Barbarindian — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 02:53:37 +0000

If OBC students coming in through the quota find it hard to keep up with course work, there could be disputes if they fail their subjects. It could turn ugly, with a few of them claiming casteism as the reason etc,

Bingo. I have blogged about this before. OBC quota is bound to dilute qualities of the institutes. Even if the students getting in are pretty good, they will not like it until unless the top ranks are distributed too. There is no stopping the “representation” factor. The idea is not about equal opportunity, it is about equal outcome. Only communism can guarantee it.

By: Observer

Observer — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 01:04:19 +0000

Confused logic here, on one hand PMK is “shocked”, and on the other Ramadoss feels, “it is not surprising”. In all this, I wonder what the poor IIT-M profs must be going through, being in the heart of “social justice” land. I know a few of them personally, and they are now regretting coming back to India. One I know is quitting for sure this June, and one more is considering taking early retirement by the end of this year. If OBC students coming in through the quota find it hard to keep up with course work, there could be disputes if they fail their subjects. It could turn ugly, with a few of them claiming casteism as the reason etc, and the inevitable PMK/DMK/DK etc protests. I am sure other profs are also probably wondering about this issue also, and I would not be surprised if some of them are planning escape routes.

From chennaionline.com

Chennai, March 29: The PMK, a strong supporter of reservation for OBCs, today said the Supreme Court order, staying the 27 per cent reservation for OBCs, has come as a “shock”.

PMK founder S Ramadoss, who spearheaded a protest in the late 1980s demanding exclusive reservation for the Vanniyar community, a dominant OBC in Tamil Nadu, said in a statement here that the order was along expected lines “as the Supreme Court never accepts any law for social justice”.

“What is surprising is that the Supreme Court has stayed a law which was unanimously passed by both Houses of Parliament, comprising elected representatives. Besides staying the law, the apex court has opined that the law was passed with an eye on vote bank politics. It is a black day for Indian democracy and parliamentary democracy and a day of mourning for OBCs. The order against the oppressed classes should be amended,” he said.

Ramadoss said PMK MPs would hold a demonstration in New Delhi tomorrow, while a rally of OBCs would be organised in Chennai the same day to highlight their “distress”.

PMK President G K Mani appealed to the people to hoist black flags in all public buildings to condemn the judgment. (Our Correspondent)

By: Observer

Observer — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 00:34:21 +0000

Caste-based quotas in the SC are not far off. In itself, that may not be bad. After all, even one SC judge will, in most likelihood, have more education than 10 “parliamentarians” put together. And also, most likely will actually be a law-abiding citizen, rather than having a long criminal history of murder, rape, extortion that many of our “parliamentarians” and especially state-level MLAs possess. Also, since an “OBC” judge would not be beholden to his “OBC” group to get elected every few years, there would at least be an opportunity for him or her to truly uphold the dignity of the court since its decisions live on in posterity.

By: Barbarindian

Barbarindian — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:29:24 +0000

“OBC justice” can never be delivered at the level the quotas are designed. Think about it, the term Socially and educationally backward is an oxymoron. A person who is socially and educationally backward can hardly aspire to secure even cut off marks in a tough entrance examination. This becomes more absurd when after completing a 4 year degree, the person is socially and educationally backward and hence gets a free post-grad seat.

By: realitycheck

realitycheck — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:16:05 +0000

>> these bunch-of-idiots are satisfied as long as they have power to satiate their false and hollow ego. >>

albert – there is more.

These politicians are the spawn of “no data”, they are born and root in the absence of true social justice. Now, the court has cut off their oxygen supply. The court has delivered social justice from these guys into the hands of truth and data. Truly a moment to rejoice for the really backward. The forward communities’ joy is not that there will never be an OBC quota, it will just be targeted at the right groups.

In reality, there is no such thing as a OBC. There are individual castes that gain membership into the group called “OBC”. These politicians are nothing but representatives of narrow electoral interests that have congealed around the OBC benefits. Almost every politician can be tracked down to a particular caste affilitation.

Ever wonder why a Yadav votes for Laloo. There is no development story you can offer him that will make him vote for a Kurmi party. Under no circumstances will BJP or Congress retain its deposit in TN without aligning with a dravidian party. Why ?

Now turn it around, What is the primary responsibility of Laloo towards the Yadav caste ? or Karunanidhi towards the Vellala castes, or Ramadoss towards the Vanniers.

If data decides who is backward, then what is the relevance of Laloo/etc. People dont just vote for cute lookin rustic jokers. They vote for cute lookin jokers who can deliver concrete benefits. This is a widening of interests all these guys dread.

By: albert

albert — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 17:54:45 +0000

Realitycheck, we all know why it isn’t happening. And we (YFE) have been harping on the same point. I mean, our primary demand during the agitation was that govt. should go for a commission to look at every aspect of reservation… be it the data, be it where the descrpencies lie, or who are getting the benefits etc. But looks like Indian politicians don’t actually care what happens with the people; these bunch-of-idiots are satisfied as long as they have power to satiate their false and hollow ego.

I’ve read your previous posts too, rather followed them closely after last year’s agitation. I think most of us in YFE and you are the same frequency when it comes to know what should be done. But then it really matters what people like you and me (us) think?!?!

By: Reason

Reason — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 06:20:53 +0000

>> Why isnt this happening ? Think about it !

in TN, most OBC castes have associations. These associations indulge in politics by supporting either of the dravida parties or sundry actors of their castes. They take up issues – Mercantile bank issue or reliance retail issue for example – through their caste associations.
Have any one of them expressed any opinion on excluding creamy layer in their communities from benefitting from reservation? Or has any of them expressed any opinion about more rationality in adding castes to BC list?

Think about that too!

My statement, that dravida OBCs have 69% quota, was merely stating a fact. I could have said TN OBCs, but Dravida is their chosen tag so why deny them that?

By: realitycheck

realitycheck — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 04:15:28 +0000

albert,

>> I mean, if there is no data then it should apply to all sectors where OBCs have been given reservation. >>

Yes. I think that might require a larger bench.

>> For the dravida OBCs, they have a 69% quota in TN >>

It is unfair to criticize the common man who is classfied as OBC. There were no protests by OBC groups prior to Arjun Singhs announcement. This is a political issue and needs to be analyzed in that angle.

If it were a social issue, then there would have been no hesitation in collecting data. If you read my previous posts (from last year) – preliminary data collection is not difficult at all. All universities can just submit applicant and admission records for the past 10 years. This can be a take-off point. The government can easily defend its policy if this data is used.

Why isnt this happening ? Think about it !

By: Reason

Reason — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 03:35:24 +0000

I am not sure to what extent lack of resources fuels OBC politics’ reservation demand. I have seen this line of thinking – in today’s Indian express editorial for example.

For the dravida OBCs, they have a 69% quota in TN – and many of them qualify on the open competition as well. So what is their obsession with a quota in central institutions as well? It can not be lack of resources. It is more likely their feudal sense of entitlement.

Take an analogy from traffic system – even if you had a 10 lane on each way highway, if you allow bullock carts, centuries old TATA trucks, autos and unrestricted turns, you would still be stuck at 30 kmph peak speeds and congestions. Lack of resources would hardly be the cause.