Reality Check India

OBC students outperform general merit students

Posted in Uncategorized by realitycheck on October 3, 2006

Imagine a courtroom in La-La land.

You see, in La-La land the rules are different from other inferior lands. In the courtroom of La-La land, the prosecution arguments are used in favour of the accused and the defence arguments are used for the plaintiff. This is weirder than Alice has ever seen – there are mad hatters everywhere and they all talk simultaneouly and then keep quiet at the same time.

See this story:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2070274.cms

BANGALORE: The great OBC myth has been busted. The biggest concern of the anti-reservation activists that introduction of castebased reservations in higher education institutes would deteriorate the quality of education has been debunked.

. . .

While OBC students have a pass percentage of 93.01 to 97.4, general merit students recorded just 66.09 to 94.77 from the 1998-2000 batch to 2001-2005 batch.

. . .

The percentage of first class with distinction among OBC students was between 37.7 and 42.38,while among SC/ST students it was between 9.32 and 11.90 in the same period

Now in any other country this is the strongest evidence possible to the position that the method to select castes to the OBC list is totally invalid. However in La-la land, this is used as an argument to further even more concessions to a group that is already advanced. 

In countries other than La-La land, this study would be interpreted as:

  1. Some castes need to be taken out of the OBC list immediately – if that is not possible then abolish the OBC quota itself.  The OBC list is seriously compromised and renders the entire OBC quota system farcical.
  2. If the OBC castes are able to perform equal to or better the general “merit” category castes; then what is the rationale for the special quota. This is a clear cut case of “the unequal treatment of equals” – the very definition of state discrimination.
  3. This data is not sufficient. You need to tell us the profile of the OBC castes surveyed. The OBC quota is a group quota. The core issue is the initial selection and continuation of castes in the OBC caste list.  It is no secret that in the south, the wealthiest and most dominant communities are classified as OBCs.
  4. The distance between the OBCs and the SC/ST is striking. Remember that Ambedkar envisaged quotas only for the SC/STs.  So this study points out they havent advanced much – this pointing to a hijacking of Ambedkars scheme.

Next in the series:

  • Study points to wealth of OBCs. In a shocking revelation Mr Shetty says that OBCs are several times weathier than general category. Mr Shetty has conducted a study of land deals in Shimoga, outer Bangalore, Mysore and found that the so called elite forward castes and the scheduled castes own next to nothing.
  • OBCs provide more educational services than the general category. In a study done by Mr Shetty, he points to startling data. Over 90% of the educational institutions are controlled by OBCs in some states. Since all Christians in TN and KA are backward and they control many medical and engineering colleges – it can be inferred that they are more socially conscious.

I think Mr Shetty should look in the mirror and answer the following question.

If a community is equal to or better than the general category in education, way better than the general category in wealth, dominant in political power, owning more assets than the general category, controlling more educational institutions than the general category, then on what basis can it be called backward ?

Maybe in La-la land the answer to these questions lie in the question itself. In other words, the question is the answer and the answer is the question.

Gawd, my head is spinning – I need another shot of rum.

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10 Responses

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  1. Apollo said, on October 3, 2006 at 4:02 pm

    RC, i was hoping that u will cover this. I just glanced this article in the library and was stunned at ToI’s deductive logical capabilities. If anything this study proves the case that the Reservation System is broken. The Creamy layer among the OBC’s have cornered all the benefits leaving the poorer sections of the OBC’s without any opportunities for upward mobility.

    There is a urgent need to exclude the creamy layer from cornering the Reservation benefits and direct it to the needy poorer sections.

  2. […] I was stunned when i read this obtuse and inane article in the largest selling English language tabloid in India i.e., The Times of India also popularly and affectionately known as ToI(let) Paper. Yesterday it published a frothing at the mouth rant against all bloggers(read its response below) and today yet again it is a blogger called Reality Check who has taken its moth-eaten credibility to the cleaners. Maybe that is why they were so angry with the blogging community in the first place. […]

  3. Polite Indian said, on October 3, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    This is agenda based reporting and analysis. TOI(let) as put by hawkeyeindia is also being called the slimes of India. It is fast loosing is credibility as a reliable source of news and analysis.

    It is sad to see intellectuals further their agenda by twisting facts and misrepresenting data. I think the reporter knows in his mind that he is deriving the wrong conclusions but is propelled by other factors to conclude what he did. This is really sad.

  4. Polite Indian said, on October 3, 2006 at 5:48 pm

    I re-read the article…

    I think the report can have either meaning… i.e. the one that you deduced or the one that the reporter deduced.
    One can clearly deduce if the data regarding the survey is made available i.e. the profiles of the students surveyed.
    Were they from the creamy layer?
    Did the get admission based on the OBC quota or they got admitted using general category but happened to be OBCs?
    Is it true that they couldn’t have been admitted if there was no OBC quota?

    I think more data is needed. In fact, without the data neither of the conclusions can be assumed to be correct.

  5. Shivam said, on October 8, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    If those benefiting from reservations perform badly, it is used as evidence that reservations hurt merit. If those benefiting from reservations perform well, it is used as evidence that reservations are not needed by them. By hook or crook, let’s just damn reservations.

    The news report says, “Against 32% reservation for OBC students in Karnataka, the enrolment has been in the range of 21.17% to 29.69%, while intake of SC/ST students has been a paltry 5.35% to 6.66% against the recommended 18%.” Clearly, if less than the proportional population is taking up these seats, and seats are lying vacant, it still means that there is a gap to be filled and reservations continue to be required. It also negates your consistent propaganda that an ‘OBC elite’ is taking away the reservations pie, and the MBCs are being deprived. If this were true why would seats be vacant? The pie is still waiting to be fully taken.

    “The distance between the OBCs and the SC/ST is striking. Remember that Ambedkar envisaged quotas only for the SC/STs. So this study points out they havent advanced much – this pointing to a hijacking of Ambedkars scheme.”

    Ambedkar did not oppose OBC reservations. Ambedkar’s word, or the Constitution’s is not the last – the Constitution allows itself to be amended as per the need of the day as seen by a government elected by the people of India. The Supreme Court has ruled that the basic character of the Constitution cannot be changed – that’s all.

    The issue of OBC reservations was discussed in the Constituent Assembly (CA) and was left open partly because they could not come to a consensus as to who are to be the OBCs. Of the 20 most important members of the CA, only one was an OBC (i.e., Shudra). The matter was unresolved and it was decided that independent India would establish a Backward Classes Commission.

    So please stop your misinformation campaign – not because it’s hurting OBC reservations, they are on course anyway – but just to be honest to yourself for a change.

  6. Shivam said, on October 8, 2006 at 7:30 pm

    Please explain this –

    Next in the series:

    * Study points to wealth of OBCs. In a shocking revelation Mr Shetty says that OBCs are several times weathier than general category. Mr Shetty has conducted a study of land deals in Shimoga, outer Bangalore, Mysore and found that the so called elite forward castes and the scheduled castes own next to nothing.
    * OBCs provide more educational services than the general category. In a study done by Mr Shetty, he points to startling data. Over 90% of the educational institutions are controlled by OBCs in some states. Since all Christians in TN and KA are backward and they control many medical and engineering colleges – it can be inferred that they are more socially conscious.

  7. realitycheck said, on October 9, 2006 at 2:53 am

    >.If those benefiting from reservations perform badly, it is used as evidence that reservations hurt merit. If those benefiting from reservations perform well, it is used as evidence that reservations are not needed by them. By hook or crook, let’s just damn reservations.
    >>

    I have never claimed that reservations hurt merit. I have made multiple posts stating that it *must* affect merit in the context of cut off marks.

    It the cut off marks indicate groups are getting in that otherwise would have no chance, then it is an indicator that the system is working. If the cut off marks are the same or are only slightly apart – it questions the need of reservations because the beneficiaries would get in anyway.

    There is no misinformation campaign here. This blog is purely my opinion as is your blog and everyone elses.

  8. realitycheck said, on October 9, 2006 at 9:39 am

    >> It also negates your consistent propaganda that an ‘OBC elite’ is taking away the reservations pie, and the MBCs are being deprived. If this were true why would seats be vacant? The pie is still waiting to be fully taken. >>

    This does not take into account vacant seats. You dont seem to know enough about the south. In TN, there were about 16,000 engineering seats that went vacant this year alone. Same story with KA.

    Rest assured that the OBC quota is filled every year for the past few decades in TN and KA. Repeat, not only is the OBC quota filled every year – but a sizeable chunk of the general quota is also taken by the OBCs. Only the SC quota remains unfilled.

    I have tried talking to you about the illogical proportional representation case. Well one more time. Our quota system is only for backward classes, not for proportional representation.

  9. Barbarindian said, on October 11, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    not because it’s hurting OBC reservations, they are on course anyway

    This guy is a fascist. Of course, when our polity has been hijacked by the likes of Ramadoss and Laloo and PC, the OBC land grab will be on course anyway.

  10. PRO-TAMIL said, on January 8, 2007 at 11:39 am

    HINDI SPEAKING OBCs WELCOME
    HINDI SPEAKING STAFF AT TN AIRPORTS OK
    HINDI SPEAKING BODYGUARDS FOR KARNUNANIDHI OK
    HINDI PAINTS ON TN TRAINS OK
    HINDI ONLY ANNOUCEMENTS ON TN FLIGHTS OK

    …. BUT TAMIL BRAHMINS TO BE ELIMINATED OUT OF TN…

    DMK’s ANTI-HINDI IS ONLY A DRAMA BUT ANTI-(TAMIL) BRAHMIN IS MORE THAN REAL

    Sir

    I wish to bring to your attention that many backward castes, most backward caste listed in Tamil Nadu’s reserved caste category speak language other than Tamil. The list is seen Tamil Nadu website http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw/bclist.htm

    These includes countless communities where Telugu is spoken at home, also several Kannada speaking caste and Urdu Muslim communities who essentially speak Hindi.

    The chairman of Tamil Nadu’s minority commision is Pyarelal Jain appointed by Karunanidhi, a Hindi-speaking Jain.

    Tamil Brahmins despite being the “biggest scoundrels” according to Karunanidhi are still Tamils. How is that Karunanidhi is reaching out even to North Indians for votes by printing Hindi pamphlets in last election. Why is DMK hating Tamil Brahmins but at the sametime reaching out for North Indians residing in TN.

    Many CBSE schools in Tamil Nadu continue to impose Hindi (as compulsory subject), while Tamil can be conveniently skipped. This is sharp contrast to Karnataka where all schools including CBSE school which dont teach Kannada as compulsory subject will be de-recognized. Karunanidhi has come to power the 4th time now. Still the Hindi impositition in CBSE flourishes.

    Why are Tamil Nadu’s ports of entry i.e airports and ports staffed by people who speak Hindi and dont know Tamil?

    Why has Karunidhi failed on his promise to have mandatory Tamil annoucements on all Tamil Nadu flights.

    Recently there was court case against use of Tamil as official language in TN and also opposition. Many people who oppose this are also covered under Tamil Nadu reservation.

    Why are evils such as 2-tumbler system and seperate well system so prevelent in Southern TN where there is virtually no ‘scoundrel’ Brahmins left. It seems that amoung BC caste there is lot of descrimination and Dalits are still suffering while the bloody TN govt, Karunidhi etc are wantonly ignoring and supporting this.

    It all looks like that the reservation policy is the most convenient means by “Tamil” politicians to destroy Tamil, Tamil society for their personal gains.

    Tamil patriots would have done something great if they had reservation for one Tamil caste in TN rather than commercial certificates which many non-Tamil speaker can purchase.

    Nandri Vanakkam
    தமிழ் சமத்துவம்
    http://i.am/tamil


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