Reality Check India

A statue story from the south

Posted in Uncategorized by realitycheck on December 9, 2006

Due to the absence of coverage in the mainstream english media (CNN-IBN is running yet another headline about who is greater King Khan or Big Bee). Here is a compilation from the vernacular print media about the recent events in the state of Tamilnadu.  This time it has nothing to do with Dalits like in Maharashtra. You can see the difference between violence born of oppression and that born of hatred.

Read on – no comments offered. Just a direct translation, so excuse the sentence construction.

Credit to blogger Vichaarah for some of the pictures.

What happened ?

First an intro about the place for north Indians and foreign visitors to this blog. Srirangam (Tiruvarangam) is the oldest, largest, and arguably the most important of all temple complexes in India. It is an ancient structure, parts of which are atleast 1500-1800 year old, even the Silapadikkaram the ancient tamil epic refers to it. All of the alwars (vaishava saints) have sung in praise of it. It is a magnificient temple complex with various architectural styles, the sheer size and sculptures of the temple are awe inspiring. It doesnt matter what your religious inclination might be – the temple is there and it is a stunning reminder of the empires past such as Chola, and Vijayanagar.

Enter the statue. The tamil rationlist leader EV Ramasami Naicker also known as Periyar is the father of the atheist rationalist movement called the Dravidian movement. This forms the guiding ideology of the DMK and to a lesser extent the AIADMK (the AIADMK is not atheist). He had his positives, but he also broke several idols and garlanded statues of Ram with slippers. He also virulently hated brahmins and hindu temples in particular. Now his organization, Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) wants to install a life size statue of him right outside the main tower of the world renowned temple on Dec 16th. If you dont like temples because you are an atheist, fine – consider it to be a world famous historical site. Either way, this arguably provocative move ruffled the feathers of hindus (of all castes) . This led to some miscreants damaging the statue.

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Picture : Periyar statue ready for inauguration right outside the main tower of the world famous Srirangam (Tiruvarangam) temple. (Pic source : Dinamalar)

The Retribution 

This set off an unprecedented chain of violence against hindu temples and brahmins in the state. This is unreported or under-reported in the national news media.

1. Ayodhya Mandapam attacked with Petrol and Acid bombs (story)
Sri Ram Samaj also known as Ayodhya Mandapam is a well known Ram temple and religious centre in the heart of Chennai in West Mambalam. Around 330PM on Dec 8th around 15 dravidian activists allegedly descended on the temple in two autorickshaws with deadly weapons and shouted “Dont spare anyone who wears sacred thread, or marks on their head Tilak or Vibhuti, thrash them” at passers by. Then they proceeded to attack the temple. First they threw an acid bomb into the temple complex,the acid struck a screen which caught fire. When devotees rushed to douse the flames, the activists hurled a petrol bomb on the idol outside the temple and another inside the temple. They shouted this was in revenge for the damage caused to the EVR Periyar statue kept outside the world famous Sri Ranganath Swamy temple in Srirangam. Then they attacked a poor Brahmin Dhandapani who was selling pooja items outside the temple on the footpath with a wooden stick, they also did not spare Murali a flower seller.

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Image : Petrol and Acid bomb attack on Ayodhya Mantap

2. Slipper garland for Sri Ram picture in Hosur
In Hosur in Krishnagiri district, a Sri Ram pattabhisekam (coronation) picture was garlanded with slippers and set on fire in the middle of the road. A bunch of activists belonging to Pudiya Jananayaka Munnetra Kazhagam (New Democratic Progressive Party) arrived at the Sri Ram temple near Gandhi Statue and shouted slogan condemning the damage to EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. They then placed a Sri Ram picture outside the temple and garlanded it with slippers, they carried the picture in a procession before setting it on fire near the Gandhi statue. Hearing this BJP ,Hindu Munnani and RSS supporters arrived on the scene in hundreds. An altercation broke out between them and the Periyar supporters, in which the head of the person who set the picture on fire, Parsuraman was broken [sic] and it started bleeding. Following that BJP and its supporters blocked the roads and demanded action.

3. Salem Shankaracharya Mutt and vedic school ransacked (Story)
In Salems Maravaneri area, there is a mutt and vedic school run by the Kanchi Shankar Mutt. This was ransacked by a gang of dravidian activists to protest the damage caused to the EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. Terrified priests rushed outside screaming. They proceeded to ransack the place,tables, chairs, pooja items were smashed and thrown all over the place.They smashed the pictures of Shankaracharya Jayendra and Vijayendra Saraswathis to pieces. They did not even spare the telephones, tubelights, or bulbs. Following this five activists belonging to Periyar Dravidian Party, Tamil Youth Party, Tamil National Party were arrested.

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Image: Shankar Mutt ransacked. Pictures, pooja items, lights, furniture smashed in Salem(Source : Dinamalar)

4. Chemplast VP and 4 others attacked in Mettur
In condemnation of the Periyar statue damage, Chemplast Industries Vice President Parthasarathy and four others were attacked. Members belonging to the DK (Dravidar Kazhagam) were apprehended.

5. Sri Ram picture set on fire outside Srirangam temple (story)
In protest against the Periyar statue damage, about 50 members of Makkal Kalai Iyakkam (Peoples Art Org) brought a picture of Sri Ram and set it on fire outside the temple. Dravidar Kazhagam president K. Veeramani meanwhile announced that a 5.5 ft tall bronze statue of Periyar would now be installed outside the temple.

6. Lord Vinayak (Ganesh) statues descrated near Villupuram (story )
A vinayaka temple near the taluk office in Sankarapuram in Villupuram dist was vandalized and two Ganesh idols were uprooted and smashed by miscreants. Some activists belonging to the Periyar Dravidar Kazhagam allegedly uprooted the idol and later smashed it and threw it outside the taluk office. Similarly, another temple (Shakti Vinayakar near the said Taluk office)was damaged, the vimanam tower and nandi statues were dismembered. This was to protest the damage done to the EVR Periyar statue in Srirangam. Townfolk lead by RSS and Hindu Munnani who came to pray in the morning were shell shocked. In the hundreds, the blocked the Tiruvannamanail-Kallakurichi road. The collector tried to pacify the group by they would not disperse until the miscreants were arrested. Police found a bit paper amidst the broken statues which claimed this was revenge for the damage caused to the Periyar statue and Ambedkar statue. No group has claimed responsibility. The idols are in police custody. Tension is prevailing in that area, and police are swarming the place.

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Picture : Nandi, Vinayaka, and Gargoyle like guardian sculptures on temple dismembered near Villupuram (Source : Dinamalar)

7. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi made accused in FIR (story)
Tiruchi police have filed an FIR on Swami Dayanand Saraswathi in link with the Periyar statue case. A Periyar statue which was kept ready for inauguration by the Dravida Kazhagam (DK) president K.Veeramani was recently damaged by miscreants. In response to this, throughout Tamilnadu Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) and other associated outfits have launced attacks on Hindu places of worship. Police have included the leader and convenor of the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha and renowned sanyasi Swami Dayanand Saraswathi as an accused. This is apparently based on information provided by four people who were apprehended. The police refused to comment on whether he would be arrested. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi also condemned the damage done to the statue and said this issue can be resolved peacefully. Swami Dayanand Saraswathi runs a vedic school called Arsha Vidya Gurukulam in Anaikatti near Coimbatore. He was devotees and supporters all over the world. Subraminian Swamy condemned this FIR on the sanyasi for merely issuing a statement against the installation of the statue right in front of the world famous and ancient Sri Ranganathaswamy temple in Srirangam.

8. Raghavendra temple ransacked in Erode, devotees cry (story)
Priest and cook attacked and sacred thread cut

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Picture above: The presiding deity thrown outside the temple in Erode (Pic source : Dinamalar)

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Picture above : Priest whose sacred thread was cut

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Pic above : Anguished devotee weeping in front of a picture of Sri Ram at Raghavendra temple Erode (all pics courtesy Dinamalar)

Raghavendra Brindavanam is located in the Kaarai Vaaykal area in Agraharam street in Erode. Today, arrangements were being made for the Sayarakshai Puja, devotees had just begun to trickle in when around 5.15 PM a group of Dravidar Kazhagam volunteers, entered the temple calmly. Suddenly they started attacking anyone in sight, and smashing anything they could get their hands on. Then they entered the sanctorum and removed the presiding deity Sri Ram which was between Sitadevi and Hanuman idols. They uprooted the idol and took it outside to the street and smashed it with a hammer. A priest Narasimhan attempted to stop the gang of 10 members, he was beaten up. 60 year old priest Venkatraman Acharya was assaulted and his kudumi (tuft of hair) was removed and hit sacred thread was cut. The temple cook Balaji and some others were also assaulted. The idols and pooja items kept ready for the evenings “Oonjal Sevai” were smashed. No robbery was committed and the Hundi was left untouched, it appears the sole purpose was to vandalize the temple. Upon hearing this hundreds of devotees surrounded the place. RSS and Hindu Munnani volunteers protested to the police. Some devotees started weeping publicly.Seven people of the Thanthai Periyar Dravida Iyakkam (Father Periyar Dravidian Party) have been detained in this connection.
 

9. State BJP leaders protest in Chennai
State BJP gen sec, Thamizisai Sounderrajan lead a BJP delegation to protest the
attacks on temples. AIADMK leaders SV Sekar and VP Kaliarajan met the victims and expressed sympathy.

10. DK President Veeramani asks for restraint
Dravidar Kazhagam president K. Veeramani on Friday appealed to people to exercise restraint. In a statement, he said nobody should take the law into their
hands and cause embarrassment to the State Government.

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241 Responses

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  1. Apollo said, on December 9, 2006 at 9:14 am

    The Dravida movement is full of crooks and rascals.

  2. Reason said, on December 9, 2006 at 9:17 am

    regular news media will classify this under ‘anger of the oppressed’. Thanks for collecting all information and making a complete post. If this is the unbridled / unquestionable force of this ‘anger of the oppressed’ today, with Ramasami Naicker dead and with 24 hour news channels and camera phones making it a litlte less difficult to get away without being recorded, imagine the strength of this force in the fifties and sixties with Ramasami Naicker alive. That is what the brahmins endured in tamil nadu. Shame on Indian secularism.

    And regular news media will also want you to believe that these are the oppressed and deserve reservation, and brahmins are the oppressors.

    There was another news story that largely went under-reported – a case of death of a girl student in a Christian missionary run school in Omalur near Salem. The local people complained of 2 other similar deaths in the recent past in that school. There were reports of liquor bottles found inside the school. The case is going to be closed as suicide, and christian organizations are making this a case of ‘minoirty persecution’ – because some people connected with the school were arrested under public pressure.

    Remember a case of a attempted suicide of a dalit student who could not clear her prep course at IIT-M and the ‘outrage’ that was manufactured following that?

  3. […] Vichaarah and RealityCheck have more. […]

  4. […] Realitycheck, culling stories from the vernacular press, points towards incidents of violence against Hindu temples in Tamilnadu. The provocation: some miscreants had damaged a statue of Periyar. I must confess, I haven’t seen any coverage about these incidents in the national media. Around 330PM on Dec 8th around 15 dravidian activists allegedly descended on the temple in two autorickshaws with deadly weapons and shouted “Dont spare anyone who wears sacred thread, or marks on their head Tilak or Vibhuti, thrash them” at passers by. Then they proceeded to attack the temple. First they threw an acid bomb into the temple complex,the acid struck a screen which caught fire. When devotees rushed to douse the flames, the activists hurled a petrol bomb on the idol outside the temple and another inside the temple […]

  5. Barbarindian said, on December 9, 2006 at 5:33 pm

    So Periyar merely became a proxy for the God whose idols he sought to destroy all his life?

  6. Vi said, on December 9, 2006 at 7:50 pm

    The only reason I know about this is because my dad is there right now and was present in Srirangam when it happened. Quite scary…

  7. In the Name of Periyar at Blogbharti said, on December 9, 2006 at 10:17 pm

    […] Reality Check offers a compilation of reports from Tamil vernacular press on the attacks on temples after a Periyar statue was damaged. (EV Ramasami Naicker) had his positives, but he also broke several idols and garlanded statues of Ram with slippers. He also virulently hated brahmins and hindu temples in particular. Now his organization, Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) wants to install a life size statue of him right outside the main tower of the world renowned temple on Dec 16th…Either way, this arguably provocative move ruffled the feathers of hindus (of all castes) . This led to some miscreants damaging the statue. […]

  8. Sharan Sharma said, on December 10, 2006 at 7:27 am

    RC,
    My heartfelt thanks to you for bringing this news to the attention of a wider audience.

    The hate-filled politics of these thugs never ceases to amaze. The resolution to put the completely irrelevant hate thing (hereby referred to as CIHT 🙂 in front of the magnificent temple was passed in 1973! Why bring it up now? And this veeramani chap – covered in point 10 of your post – he was the guy who laid the installation stone of the CIHT in 1996!

    You must, if you haven’t – check out veeramani’s profile here. An amazing extract from the profile of this relentless social justice crusader:


    In recognition of his service to the Community, the public presented him silver equal to his weight at a State Level Conference held at Pudukkottai.

    In honour of his services to the humanity, the public presented [….snip….], gold weighed against his weight at an International meet at Thanjavur.

    Of course this CIHT thing is, as you know, not new. They did the same thing when they *did* install the statue of naicker outside the kAnchi matha (early 70’s – same time the decision to install the Srirangam CIHT was taken) to mock Hindu believers.

  9. Karan said, on December 10, 2006 at 3:18 pm

    This is an outrage. Evermore there seems to be a feeling of helplessness. This UPA is not going to do anything about it. I feel awful after reading this – but am glad I did.

  10. xyz said, on December 10, 2006 at 4:16 pm

    I am presenting a slightly different view point.First of all, I have nothing but contempt (and seething hatred) for periyaar DK,and people of their ilk.What they have done is despicable.it cannot be tolerated. Neverthless one must understand the motives of the mainstream politicians.Tamils believe that they are different from indians,their language is different from every other language.Their stand in the reservation issue is also motivated by this.These deep feelings cannot be ignored,when we comment sensitive issues. A few thoughts ( with the caveat- that we should continue to strive for unity)
    1) why is there such a wide gulf between iyers and iyengars?
    2)What is the reason for hatred towards the kanchi mutt- is it because it stands for pan indian hinduism? and does not recogonise the special status of tamil language?
    3)Sri Vaishnava mutts do not attract such hatred? They seem to stay clear of such controversies.(the controversy is supposed to be about srirangam)
    4)Srivaishnavas include tamil liturgy as a part of their anushtanam.The Advaita thought is considered elitist.
    5)Is it also possible that vadama brahmanas ,who migrated from karnataka and AP during nayaka period, are just ignoring the tamil angle.not delberately,but because tamil nationalism is getting bigger and bigger and just cannot be accomodated within indian nationalism.I think only Time can provide answers,we are far too small.
    6) brahmanas are just dropping off the tamil radar .
    7) Tamil plays an insignificant part in our intellectual and spiritual life.except to notice scurillous attacks from dravidian racists.Of course we enjoy rajni and mani ratnam (to different degrees).For tamil non brahmins ,tamil is a vital part of their intellectual existence.( to the degree it exists)
    8)Only scientists and engineers among brahmanas might help in reconnecting with the larger tamil society.But this will take time.we cant predict the contours of this process.
    9)The attacks seem to have been targeted against sankara and madhva mutts.Is there a message being missed?
    10)Reservation in tamilnadu cannot be delinked from liguistic nationalism.Tamils believe that they are retreiving their language and culture from the aryans after 1500 years of subjugation,which started from the pallava rule

    • rknaidu said, on December 19, 2011 at 1:08 am

      Madevial barbarian thinking.cross belted racists, lazy a.holes with fd falls beleives, suckkers.Destroyed hinduism.

      DRAVIDIANS ARE NATIVES, Go back to your middle eastren fathers.

      • Kandada said, on December 16, 2015 at 5:46 am

        Dravadian root is in drshmul in Turkey. India was then America where people all over the world moved into and made this country. Some came early some later, some are still coming and this will definitely continue. Such is the beauty of this country, esp ‘maryada’ of the peminsula

    • seadog4227 said, on December 30, 2011 at 3:34 am

      1) There is no wide gulf between Iyers and Iyengars- they just have different modes of worship. In fact, today there is vast intermarriage between the communities. (2) The Kanchi mutt is hated for pan-Hinduism? Reallly? All south Indian mutts have widespread presence all over India and also outside India. The divyadeshams are equally widespread. Special status for Tamil language not recognized? That IS the language used in every temple. Several jeers tell us that Sanskrit and Tamil are the 2 eyes of God!Several lengthy poems including the Thiruvembavai are in Tamil. (3) The presence of Shaivites is considerably larger in number throughout India and advaita is Shaiva throughout. (4) So Vadama or Vadagalay brahmins came from somewhere else, but the rest of the populace are “shashvat” in Tamil Nadu? You must be joking! Every census reveals that India has all sorts of migratory patterns. (5) Yes brahmins are rapidly decreasing in number due to migration. They were 2% of the Tamil population 50 years ago and declining: is that a good trend? Remember Rama Mahrishi’s warning: if spirituality is not supported or needed, it simply relocates somewhere else. (6) Concern for Tamil, brahmin or non-brahmin, is misplaced: ALL INDIAN languages are currently threatened by English; so get real! (7) Shankara mutts are many more in number than Vaishnava mutts. Are the people emboldened by Puratchi “Thalaiveli’s ” treatment of Jayendra Swami? (8) There were never any aryans: the theory is a fraud. Even rabid Communists accept this today. DNA studies clearly indicate that there is NO BASIS for the theory. Read, re-read and learn something right for a change. I hope I have not wasted 15 minutes in writing this to a dunderhead!

  11. Barbarindian said, on December 10, 2006 at 6:42 pm

    So, you guys think a Dravidian secessionist movement is possible? What is more likely, Dravidian secessionist movement or a full blown Dalit revolution?

  12. rc said, on December 10, 2006 at 8:06 pm

    Barb / xyz –

    Slow down guys !

    The overwhelming majority of Tamils are hard working, decent, god fearing people who really do not care for this kind of hooliganism. They do not care about 3000 year old theories either. Religiousness is on the rise in TN among all castes. An outsider will not believe that this place is ruled by atheist ideology. Even lorries, autos, vans, and cars, are named after this or that god. Temple festivals are packed with people of all castes who mingle with each other quite freely and respectfully. There are pitched battles about rights to pull the temple cars on various occasions.

    This is the surest proof of the irrelevance and total failure of the central theme of atheism in contemporary TN. Arguably, by attacking religion using intimidation and ridicule – the dravidian movement might have had an opposite effect. Just walk outside to any street corner and you will find people of all castes getting ready for the annual Sabarimala season. No state sends as many people there as TN. Most taxis, vans, tours are booked full going to Kerala. You cannot get a “Tirupati” appointment for two months down the road. People crowd the Tiruvannamalai festival in record numbers. Such acts of violence against an already diminished community will have the opposite effect of pushing people away from these leaders. The DK leadership should have adapted with the times and dropped the anti-brahmin rhetoric and focused on the positive things Periyar said about equality of castes, womens rights, and so forth. They are doing gross injustice to their own leader.

    Let us not extrapolate the behavior of one or two outfits to the entire tamil population.

  13. Barbarindian said, on December 10, 2006 at 9:03 pm

    Of course I was exaggerating, but then again I am not a newspaper reporter. I like to do scenario analysis. I realized reading your blog that a lot of local issues and realities are being glossed over at the national level. As a result, the noise from the active Dravidian guys that reach us is extremely loud.

    This is a problem, perhaps this results from the fragmentation of politics. Mistrust builds because of this. Despite all the advances of new technology, there is a lot of segregation going on. This is not good but what can you do about it? Our political leaders are not being exactly role models in bridging the gap and likewise the electorate seem to gleefully pander to the communal divisive ideologies.

  14. Ramanan said, on December 11, 2006 at 2:26 am

    RealityCheck,

    Thanks for compiling the list of recent atrocities by EVR followers. I also think that someone needs to compile the atrocities that happened during the 60s, at the height of the Dravidian movement. Because they came into power, and history is written by the winners, the anti-Brahmin atrocities of the 60s are being slowly forgotten. With the release of the whitewashed “Periyar” movie, they hope the rewrite of history will be complete. It is up to the relatives and descendants of the victims to preserve the memory of those atrocities so that future generations can remember and the propaganda can be countered. Even now most Tamil intellectuals will simply deny that there was even a anti-Brahmin component to the Dravidian movement. Only a compilation of facts for all to see will negate this propaganda.

  15. rc said, on December 11, 2006 at 3:51 am

    >> I also think that someone needs to compile the atrocities that happened during the 60s, >>

    Absolutely.

    Barb,

    Of course, I knew you were exagerrating 🙂

    There are two faces to every ideology. Its natural appeal and whether or not it offers some tangible and/or material benefits.

    Let me indulge in some exagerration myself. I will use an american analogy. Say the state of Massachussets offers a 20% tax credit for all obvious Yankees fans – because it feels the citizens are too partisan and wants to encourage support for all teams. You will have to wear a baseball hat and T-shirt to avail of this. Guess what will happen – most individuals will start wearing yankees outfits but secretly root for the red sox. The minute the 20% tax credit is withdrawn everyone will go back to their original positions.

    It sounds farcical only because we dont expect a rational american state legislature to do something like this.

  16. xyz said, on December 11, 2006 at 7:41 am

    rc,
    i was only trying to highlight the ‘other’ viewpoint,not sound alarmist.There is no chance of Tamilnadu seceding, atleast for 20 years.Tamil politicians and intellectuals want to engage india,at their terms.In a detached way,i respect their viewpoint.Tamils have always had intercourse with the rest of india and tamils have much in common with other indians.
    Neverthless they have a distinct identity.During the freedom struggle dravidian leaders supported the british.because they felt they would become second class citizens in independent india.(‘parpana pillaikilodu nammal potti poda mudiyathu,eka india endra peyaral tamizhan nasuka paduvan’).”We can’t compete with brahmanas,tamils will be sacrificed at the altar of india.” Reservation was and is the only way to maintain the power equation.Tamil politicians of all hues and castes support this view point.This fear is shared by vokkaligas,ezhavas,scs.
    Tamils had their way in state govt jobs and educational institutions.But the thugs were in the forefront during mandal 1.We resigned ourselves to the new situation..Now in IITs,the creamy layer is poised to have a free lunch.This is where tamils are different from others.Proportional representation is not implemented within TN.There are many layers in tamil society.pallars(sc’s),mutharayars(the single largest community in karur,tiruchi),konars and numerous other small communities are still poor.

    The philosophy of Dravidian leaders is reservation in education and state employment ,but laissez-faire in all other fields.One can understand their concerns,but when it starts violating others’ basic rights,they have to be stopped.

    The attack on temples has been selective.Even at the height of the dravidian movement,murugan and mariamman were not attacked.Iswara(sivan) was considered a “southern” god.pillaiyar(Ganapathi) was ,in this world view, a kannada import.Sri Rama attracted special ire.The hosur incident might also have to do with simmering tamil-kannada tension in the border town.

    I wanted to highlight the complexity of the situation in TN.Madras is today more cosmopolitan than ever.People are pouring in from north india,AP and orissa.Many MNCs and indian conglommerates are setting up shop in chennai.The business climate and labour market is congenial to them.

  17. rc said, on December 11, 2006 at 8:19 am

    >> Iswara(sivan) was considered a “southern” god.pillaiyar(Ganapathi) was ,in this world view, a kannada import.>>

    Wow – this is crazy. Thanks for the info. Arent Ganesha and Murugan supposed to be brothers ? There are Ganesha sanctums in even the most ancient temples. Are they claiming some Kannadiga sneaked them in 2K years back ? If Siva is a “southern” god, then why are Mt Kailash and Gangotri glacier in the north. Doesnt make sense, not that I expect it to.

    Are there any good books on this subject ?

  18. srinias said, on December 11, 2006 at 8:27 am

    I had been to TN a few times.Tamil society is filled with hatred.These guys feel that their culture is superior to all cultures (including their border states).They also say that Tamil is a sweet language.That is pure shit.Telugu is the sweetest among south indian languages.I always feel that kannada culture is much superior and they are peace loving people.Not many people particulaly IT people prefer to go to chennai.They prefer Bangalore or Hyderabad. These guys even if they goto US move together speak in tamil.They are not easily sociable people.

    • Kandada said, on December 16, 2015 at 6:53 am

      I am sorry, but I have to disagree. Tamilians as a whole are very hospitable people. It is only the love for their language. If we learn to love their language or at least attempt to learn understand they give their lives for you. Periyar movement was a Neo rich movement like in the US couple of centuries back where in they derided the English / European lordship hierarchy and came up with dignity of labour and entrepreneurship. But they enslaved blacks. Same way the DK movement fought against lordship of Brahminism ( Remember, periyar tried to differentiate between brahmins and Brahminism – Brahmins are normal human beings like any of us but “ism” of caste hierarchy has to be destroyed), but it never really tried to work under the leadership of Dalits. I would like to know names of five Dalit Presidents of DK and their % of leadership in DK.

      • muthaiyan said, on April 21, 2017 at 2:53 pm

        Tamilians love their caste more than their language unlike Malayalees In tamil Nadu nobody calls himself as Tamilian. They invariably identify with their castes in all their social relationships People are murdering other tamilians becauseof caste fanaticism and are intolerant of modern human values i

  19. rc said, on December 11, 2006 at 8:38 am

    One more thing that intrigues me a lot

    If tamil nationalism was/is as strong as you claim. Why is there no support on the ground for the sri lankan tamils ? I am not talking about lip service or token fasts. I am talking about folks from TN going to fight the sinhalese oppressors. Just like Pakistanis get trained and come into J&K. If an Tamil equivalent of Lashkar opened a recruiting centre in TN – do you really envision anyone signing up ? I saw a pretty heart rending program on BBC recently where they showed the plight of the Jaffna peninsula due to the blockade. A doctor claims they dont even have gauzes, so they wash and reuse the old ones. Except one politician (vaiko) no one even bothered to make a major issue of this.

  20. Barbarindian said, on December 11, 2006 at 9:20 am

    Off-topic: RC, Abi has posted quite a few posts on the Other India site about OBC population data. You might want to take a look.

  21. Brahman said, on December 11, 2006 at 10:42 am

    I can imagine if these DK thugs were to try and cut the skullcap of a Muslim, or cut the frock of a priest. They will not dare do that, or they will be on TV getting their heads cut off, or in the case of a priest, their donations will dry up. Brahmans have been peace loving and law-abiding. If the arrested thugs are let off by the Govt, many may finally feel compelled to take the law into their own hands for self-defence, and the next decade may witness the first Brahman suicide bomber at a DK meeting. TN may become like Iraq with sectarian conflict and lack of law and order and plunging investment. I wish all thse DK/…[A-Z]*K parties would go and die in Sri Lanka.

    • muthaiyan said, on April 21, 2017 at 3:24 pm

      O Brahman
      Your grievance is that the Dk thugs have not cut the skulp cap of another human being like a muslim and not cut the frock of priest( i presume you mean christian priest) and if it is done you will justify their action against Brahmins what a sadistic pleasure and exhibition of intolerance towrds other religions There is a contradiction between your statement that Brrahmins are peace loving and your exhortation for violence

  22. Reason said, on December 11, 2006 at 10:50 am

    xyz has several interesting theories – dravida groups apparently targetted only Iyer (saivaite) brahmins and not iyengars (vaishnavites) because vaishnavites adopted tamil for worship. And also dravida groups did not abuse siva worship because siva was a tamil god, and they abused rama. But Rama is a god of Vaishnavites, so shouldn’t he be spared? is there a different theory for that? in truth both in saiva and vaishnava temples in tamil nadu, the agama worship and archanas are based on sanskrit. And both saiva and vaishnava temples recite tamil hymns during morning/evening arathi.

    And dravida attacks on temples in hosur is because of karnataka-tamil nadu row – then what was the deal with attacks in Salem, Erode and Chennai? and what was with all that crap when naicker was alive, back in the fifties and sixties?

    And dravida groups are only sending a ‘message’ to Advaita and Madhva groups with their attacks – the provocation was placing a naicker statue in front of Sri rangam, a Vaishnava shrine.

    And that stuff about vadama brahmins migrating from karnataka – the vadama brahmin sect too has tamil as mother tongue – tamil was *not* the mother tongue of naicker – it was telugu or kannada, and naicker called tamil a barbaric language.

    The reason why Kanchi mutt is specificaly targetted is very clear – The previous acharya, Chandrasekharendra saraswathi, toured all over the state, and all nooks and corners of tamil nadu in the sixties and seventies, when naicker’s hate mongering was at the highest and nobody dared stand up against that. Jayendra saraswathi even connected with dalits, visited their colonies, and in one particular incident at meenakshipuram in tirunelveli district, visited dalit people who had all converted to islam due to OBC atrocities and converted them back. The other vaishnava mutts kept to themselves and thus they were no threat to naicker’s hate mongering.

    RC – dont go looking for logic with dravida stupidity. there is none. They do have volume and volumes of this same nonsense that xyz proffers, printed in books if you are still interested though.

  23. xyz said, on December 11, 2006 at 12:11 pm

    reason/rc
    There is truth in what you say as well.I am pointing out the “other” view point.I am not going to contest your remarks.They are insignificant in this context.I was`trying to explain the selective targets.and most importantly the mindset:the distinct cultural identity of the tamils.There is no reason for tamils to revolt.They have much in common with other indians.They are essentially pragmatic who want to extract the maximum leverage from weak central govts.rc is right when he says there is no groundswell of support for tamil eelam.
    I dont have a theory to explain every facet of tamil life.But I stand by what i have said regarding the attitude of tamil mainstream politicians regarding language,reservations and how they view india.(with the possible exception of ADMK).this is no profound revelation either and is known to most perceptive persons in TN.

  24. Revathi said, on December 11, 2006 at 12:20 pm

    From the indifference of the central govt to this distortion of history in Tamil Nadu, one feels that Tamil Nadu has already seceded from the Indian union

  25. srinias said, on December 11, 2006 at 12:23 pm

    We too ( neighbours to TN) quarrel regarding caste,customs etc.But we never go to this extrme level of violence and hatred.For example Lingayats of karnataka say that they are not Hindus etc .But they never attack Symbols of Hinduism.Similarly Ezzavas of kerala influenced by Narayana Guru are also not violent.In AP also the converted Hindus never try to attack symbols of Hinduism

    Violence and hatred are part and parcel of present tamil culture.They might have acquired this synndrome because of lack of emotional IQ. In their older movies their heroes used to act with tons of emotion.But they can overcome this emotinal syndrome by joining hands with mainstram India after stop feeling their superiority in culture etc..

  26. srinidhi said, on December 11, 2006 at 1:29 pm

    If this mess won’t be stopped it is goona lead to huge amount of tension in India TN particularly only god knows what politicans are upto

  27. Ramanan said, on December 11, 2006 at 1:30 pm

    Tamil culture at present is *extremely* prone to fascist leanings. Every now and then, such incidents occur to remind one not to be too complacent about things in Tamil Nadu. I wouldn’t be too optimistic about TN remaining in India. In the heart of hearts the dream of all the D*K parties is an independent Tamil country, completely free of Brahmins and non-Tamils. If and when there is sufficient instability in India, they will take advantage of that opportunity and create it.

  28. Reason said, on December 11, 2006 at 2:25 pm

    xyz,
    “I am not going to contest your remarks.They are insignificant in this context”
    You can choose to not contest or contest. But actual data that contradicts your explanations does not become ‘insignificant’ just because you say so.

  29. rc said, on December 12, 2006 at 6:06 am

    xyz/ Ramanan

    The anxiety of the Brahmin community atleast in the state of TN is understandable. It is likely there is reverse discrimination going on in education and state employment. There is simply no way 96% of the state requires social justice in the form of hard quotas. However, in my view, things could have been worse. The Dravidian movement has kept the communists out of the picture. That is a huge plus in my book.

    I would take a bit of ridicule and harassment – over lack of growth and jobs. Just ignore them with the worst contempt – and move on. There is freedom for the community to look after its own members. A tireless person like H.Raja of the BJP was not even able to get 10K votes from a so called brahmin area. Lakhs still patronize communist newspapers like the hindu. Look inside and you will find the answers.

  30. xyz said, on December 12, 2006 at 7:46 am

    rc
    tamil brahmin community is not homogeneous.It includes industrialists like the TVS family ,simpsons sivasailam and mallika (TAFE),India ,cements N.Sankar,N.Srinivasan(a close confidante of karunanidhi),owners of Hindu,founder of CTS lakshmi narayanan,mani ratnam,kamal haasan,owners of the tamil weekly Ananda vikatan.(All the above live in madras.) It is also a fact that tamil brahmins were the only brahmin sect which had ventured into business before economic liberalisation in 90s.(This was prompted both their confidence in independent india and the anti- brahmin movement).There are smart and wily tamil brahmins around.Perhaps there are more tamil brahmins than any other community among software professionals in bangalore.Large number of brahmin students migrated during 70s,80s and 90s to the west for better pastures.This was not due to reservation.
    Aging mamas and mamis lead comfortable and contented lives in madras,listening to December kutcheries,secure in the knowledge that their children are doing well in the states.The brahmin angst is not shared by everyone.A substantial number found their way into the accounting profession as CAs (where there is no reservation).At the other end of the spectrum there are poor cooks and priests ,who struggle to eke out a living.There are numerous categories in between.

    As i have debated in this forum for six months,even my view point has changed imperceptibly.After all,the brahmanas are a minority in TN.The feelings of envy in the heart of non brahmins seems understandable,though not justified.I agree wholeheartedly that ‘fat rich chettiar kids should not have the benefits of reservation’In the earlier period there was scarcity of seats and jobs and the heart burn was inevitable.

    The point RC has been making, about criteria for determining backwardness be made transparent, should be our concern.we should not be sidetracked by other issues.

    This is a complete U turn by me.I have been parroting again and again about the motivation of tamil politicians.After all ,karunanidhi has been in power at the centre for the last 10 years.This should have mellowed him.even ramadoss must be learning from his delhi experience,one hopes.Thousands of students from north are studying in madras.People do change with time.All said and done,tamilnadu is not kashmir.If the tamil leaders give up on chauvinism and become sensitive to people speaking other languages,(which i think wil happen) ,then the future augurs well.

    How do I explain my U turn? There are more opportunities now than ever.The tamils themselves have benefited from central largesse in the UPA rule.The tamils have gained immense self confidence and knowledge because of reservation.Politically the threat from jaya is receding.Also TN has to engage rest of india.The tamil leaders realise that tamil nadu cannot break with india.If only they can tone down their chauvinism and develop respect for diversity,…

    Many brahmanas have great regard for formal learning in languages,mathematics and physics.It is so difficult to stomach that some tamizharasan or anbazhagan is going to get admission in iits and central institutions claiming backwardness.We should ensure “fat chettier kids” do not get the benefit of reservation.

    Modern life is not just about technology.It is also about capital,mass communication,marketing and a lot of other things far removed from academics.If brahmana kids have an opportunity to learn in decent schools and college,we should feel happy.

    But the UPA govt ,which is worse than Aurangzeb according to PV indiresan,former director iit madras,may not even let that.

  31. Revathi said, on December 12, 2006 at 8:23 am

    Dear xyz,

    I cant figure out what your message is- you want to say that since there is a handfull of influential tamil brahmins in chennai (who by the way are least interested in getting organised on the basis of caste) discrimination of brahmins in Tamil Nadu can continue for another 50 years without any visible effect. Please correct me if I am wrong. But the most telling effect is that the brahmins whose traditional vocation was teaching have been practically eradicated from all govt institutions be it school, college or university.

  32. srinias said, on December 12, 2006 at 10:26 am

    We the Hindus from neighboring states are deeply hurt by the atheistic fundamentalism by Tamilians against Hindu gods.If you guys do not believe in Hinduism ,forget it.But dont hurt us.Please dont bring in Brahmins vs atheists etc.In the other south indian states Hindus spread across all castes unlike in TN.

  33. xyz said, on December 12, 2006 at 11:51 am

    revathi,

    i share your anguish.but what can be done? we can only hope that brahmin kids get an opportunity to learn in good schools and colleges.The world is so competitive.We need to respect and nurture talent.but in our country and particularly our state so many powerful people want to cut down to size talented and honest people.

  34. The Rationalist Theist said, on December 12, 2006 at 2:10 pm

    The only thing is that the politicians will do any thing to get richer.

    I. DIVIDE AND RULE
    Divide they have done.
    People into nations(india and pak)
    Nation into linguistic states
    States into religions pitted against one another
    Religion ( majority Hindus) into SC/ST/OBC/MBC/rural SC/rural ST etc.

    II. DESTROY AND RULE
    First destroy the majority religion

    yups so their sons and daughters can keep on ruling either directly or through proxy

    • muthaiyan said, on April 21, 2017 at 4:20 pm

      Politicians are necessary evil not only in India but the whole world .It is politicians who got independence for India and in the process only British India got divided But for British there would not have been an integrated Indian nation for us to enjoy the present life. Linguistic states have solved more problems than what they have created. Potti sriramulu gave his life for linguistic Andhra Pradesh Politicians have not divided the people into castes They have been created two thousand years back by the sastras etc Politicians have only taken note of the inequity in the Indian caste system and brought about ameliorative measures. And finally in a secular state like India there is only a coexistence of religions and there is no majority or minority religion. Let us not blame the politicians alone for all the ills of the country.People get politicians whom they deserve.Who gives power to the politicians to rule ? It is people who vote for money and freebies and on the basis caste /religion/ language We should know where the blame lies

  35. The Rationalist Theist said, on December 12, 2006 at 2:13 pm

    funny and strange –> whatever these so called atheists do is predicted by the vedas to occur in kali yuga.

  36. The Rationalist Theist said, on December 12, 2006 at 2:17 pm

    quote ” The Dravidian movement has kept the communists out of the picture. That is a huge plus in my book.”

    yeah ….dravidian sounds better than communist !

    but the communist wud never attack just one religion to enlarge their fat ugly tummies

  37. Dr:Faqir chand said, on December 13, 2006 at 12:11 pm

    Every cevil human being is his & condem such kind of barbaric act.All the Human rights groups ,Religious freedom groups orgnisation ,UN & Pseudosecular Indian Goprvernment are must stop this all barbrism against majority Hindus in India & bring the criminals & fundamintalist to justice.

  38. lmn said, on December 13, 2006 at 2:41 pm

    revathi,if you are still listening

    many indians are faculty members in prestigious universities in U.S.Those who are working in cutting edge technologies are teachers of tommorrow.If you have seen Sharan Sharma’s site, you will see that he is a teacher in his own right.Things are not that bad,though it is getting difficult for average guys and those at the margins.

    On the other hand , one sees women venturing into apparel design,ad agencies,relocation services for foreigners and NRIs and so many other service sectors even in ‘conservative’ madras,which is no longer so conservative.

  39. xyz said, on December 13, 2006 at 2:54 pm

    revathi,if you are still listening

    many indians are faculty members in prestigious indian universities.Those who are working in cutting edge technologies could be the teachers of tommorrow.If you have seen Sharan Sharma’s site,you will see the teacher in him.There are so many dimensions to learning now.

    Women are working in many new service areas ranging from apparel design , ad agencies, relocation services even in ‘conservative’ madras, which is no longer conservative.There is a certain momentum to this age ,which even dim witted persons like me can recogonise and this might overwhelm karu,ramadoss and co.We can not predict the future, but then no one else can either.

  40. No more Hindu-sthan « Satyameva Jayate said, on December 13, 2006 at 4:18 pm

    […] Controversy about installing Periyar’s statue right in front of Srirangam temple is already in news. We must have have heard how some Hindus took matters in their hand and broke the statue. However, the story does not ends here. Another blog has a very detailed report on the temple, statue and media-censored aftermath. A friend of mine commented, “Hindus shouldnt have broken the statue!”. Well, to explain the ground realities read about the aftermath. It will prove the indifference of media as well the law when it comes to acts of terrorism against Hindu society on the land of Hindus. There were complaints lodged at all level against DK’s statue inauguration ceremony only in vain. It is no surprise that local residents had to do what they did with Periyar’s statue. In any case, the Indian English media once again proves its bias against Hindu society by blackening out the reports of terror against Hinduism while printing pages on Periyar’s statue incidence. […]

  41. Ramanan said, on December 14, 2006 at 3:22 am

    On top of that, a couple of days back, the shooting of the ‘Periyar’ movie was held **inside** the Varadarajaperumal temple, over the objections of temple authorities and devotees. Apparently the DK and DMK got the local police commissioner to give permission. I don’t think any other religion would allow a movie about its biggest opponent to be taken inside the premises of a sacred site. These are shameful times for the Hindu religion in Tamil Nadu. See http://thatstamil.oneindia.in/specials/cinema/shooting-spot/periyar_061213.html (report in Tamil) and http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsitem.asp?NEWSID=%7B297215DF-6311-4247-B250-BE84287547FC%7D&CATEGORYNAME=TAMNA (in English)

  42. Revathi said, on December 14, 2006 at 8:27 am

    Thanks for all the encouraging comments. When I was younger and was barred from certain professions due to reservations it caused me a great deal of anguish. However, my dad consoled me saying that if you find your true vocation, no one can stop you. The fact that you didnt get into this or the other course meant that you werent sufficiently motivated to do so”. I realised that this was indeed the case and decided to change my line. Thanks to all the guidance my parents and teachers gave me, I am well settled in life. My advice to all those who feel discriminated is that ” the fact that you are competing in the general category in Tamil Nadu means that you have to be absolutely focused and put in your best effort. No one is out there to help you out and you have to use all the resources available both in India and abroad to make a place for yourself because you are going to need it. Good luck and may the force be with you”.

  43. xyz said, on December 14, 2006 at 1:11 pm

    ‘periyar’ film shooting:
    how low can these bast.. s stoop? is there no limit to the depravity of karu? i have to eat my words.

  44. Mani said, on December 14, 2006 at 5:00 pm

    Its about time the TAMIL hindus took a page out of UP HINDUS and also react. Why was there no mass protests in Chennai when this happened?

    Imagine if this happend anywhere in the North of India. Tamil Hindus (esp Brahmins) either do not want to make a right a wrong or they want to flee their Land (tamil Nadu or India). They keep quoting parts from Gita and many Vedas ut rarely put them to practice when the sitation demands it.

    TAMILs should also do something so that parties taht indulge in such activities will thinkl twice before doing such shameful activities.

  45. André said, on December 15, 2006 at 12:19 pm

    I am from Brazil and never heard such atheistic terror movement like that. I admire a lot the hindu temples and gods and I hope this kind of atheist intolerance finds an end soon.
    However, nice to see this blog with so interesting informations about India.

  46. Justin said, on December 15, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    Hi there,

    What did Periyar do?
    Desecrate Rama’s idols! right!!!

    Now see what is happening,his idols are getting desecrated,

    further, why all the Furuore from the Dravidian Movement
    Nothing has happened when Periyar’s statue is being desecrated,
    if Rama does not live in Idols and Pictures,so does Periyar,

    why all this Fuss?????

    • rknaidu said, on December 19, 2011 at 1:19 am

      God is not in stones and snakes. or god needs expensive buildings and gold juwelery.It is all madeup by these lazy perverts .
      God is god, god is not gods.Stop your temple business.Hinduism is not stones.
      serve poor.Jesus served alone .

      Dont cry, you ruthless racists, you have done enough to keep millions in IGNORANCE.No more, people are educating, using common semce.

      GO TO WORK< STOP STEELING FROM TEMPLES<

      Christians came from Australia to help poor and leperes in orissa, You crazy brhmins killed son and father alive, you are nothing but fanatic, lazy, parasites.

      • Balanand Janardhan said, on October 27, 2016 at 10:35 am

        You are a lazy fascist bastard. Who the hell are you to castigate Hindus, you asshole?

  47. Mahesh said, on December 17, 2006 at 4:52 pm

    The Dravidian polity lacks the guts to tell publicly that all Hindus are their enemies.They know that it will ruin them.Instead, they choose to target the Brahmin population (which is less than 3% of the total TN pop.) through their malicious propaganda. Brahmins being a soft target won’t find anyone in political circles to defend them.(Contrary to the case of Muslims).

  48. srinias said, on December 18, 2006 at 4:37 am

    I request tamil brahmin to be patient.

  49. R.K. Ohri said, on December 18, 2006 at 4:33 pm

    These sordid events should act as an eye-opener for the beseiged Hindu society – not oly in Tamil Nadu, but all over the country. Just look at how Muslim jihadis have been attacking with impunity Hindu temples, targeting all Hindu festivals, ambushing and killing innocent pilgrims going to Amarnath and Vaishno Devi. In this nefarious game plan of assaulting and denigrating Hindu identity of India the Jihadis, the communists and self-styled secularists (or atheists) are united. It is us, the comatose Hindus alone, who don’t recognise thismenacing reality.

    The need of the hour is to unite all Hindus, all over the country, irrespective of caste discrimination and form a united front to fight back. Unless that is done these calculated attacks on Hindus will not cease.

    In India a new dogmatic religion (eminently comparable to dogmatic Islam and super-dogmatic Marxism/communism) has been taking shape since independence. Its name is SECULARISM. Lakhs of Hindus, may be even a few crore, have wittingly or unwittingly, renounced their ‘Dharma’ and climbed on to the bandwagon of this new religion which is called SECULARISM. This new religion is out and out anti-Hindu, violently anti-Dharma and viciously aligned with radical Islam and obscurantist cult of Marxism /Communism. Hindus must unite and fight this diabolical menace which is hellbent on destroying the Hindu identity of India.
    R.K. Ohri rkohri@airtelbroadband.in

  50. Rajkumar A said, on December 18, 2006 at 6:32 pm

    I believe the first act of provocation was installing a confirmed atheist’s
    statue outside the temple. That being said, one of the tactical response from the hindu organizations could have been to put a kind of screen (in temple land) so that Periyar statue is hidden from the temple. The people installing the Periyar statue can not question what the believers do in their land. That would have arguably started a nice discussion.

    And, as a tamil non-brahmin Hindu from Tuticorin, I fail to understand why some of the educated tamils belonging to non-brahmin castes, recognize these atheist scoundrels while it is very well known that Periyar called Tamil Language and Tamil Culture as barbaric. So much for the much touted self-respect of this Tamil idealogues.

    All said, I feel the current imbroglio could be well used by Hindu Community if it acts in unison to completely undermine the DK movement once and for all. If they mess with us, we’ll mess with them. Certainly, Tamil Hindus are more faithful to their Faith than the DK/DMK would like to give them credit for.

  51. R Prasad said, on December 18, 2006 at 7:06 pm

    Thanks to Wed, Internet and Email Technologies, we simply need not depend and blindly follow the Anti-Hindu, Leftist and Pro-Muslim Indian media. More and more people are watching and visiting the genuine nationalistc news sources to know the news. (See below).
    http://www.indiacause.com/
    http://www.dailypioneer.com/
    http://www.organiser.org/
    http://www.newsinsight.net/
    http://www.haindavakeralam.org

    At the same time, all of us Hindus should stop buying the SECULAR news papers, which are always against India, Hindus and Hinduism. We should deprive them of money. When we buy their news papers, they are using the same money to write lies about us and supporting Terrorists like Afzal. Also, we should stop paying personal ads in those news papers.

  52. Venkat Thiagarajan said, on December 19, 2006 at 1:09 am

    The events in TN are really outrageous. Is there a rule of law or not in TN. How low one should get in order for larger public outrage. The DK elements must be made pay for all the damage and anguish caused. DK organization must be made pay financially. It is high time industires start pulling out of this racist state of TN. That may put some sense in to these low lives.

  53. Ashwani said, on December 19, 2006 at 11:42 am

    Let us forget casts etc among us.To hell with all casts.We have suffered enough.We are Hindus and this is Hindusthan and this is a Hindu Rashtra.Now first we proud hindus have to unite and then we have to Hinduise the seculars,xtians,muslims and communists . All anti-Hindu forces first have to be recognised and then tackled with a strong force and in a planed way. Recognise the parties ,political persons,and various organisations,which are anti hindus, and are harming hindu interests or Hindu unity.Pl read daily hinduunity.org thru anonymous.org search engine.hinduunity.org has been banned by our anti-hindu Govt. recently.
    Another site is also worth reading ie faithfreedom.org run by 500 muslims
    to liberate muslims of the world from the evil clutches of islam and koran.
    So Hindus have to be united and also have to be ALERTED against
    comunists,xtians,muslims, and most dangerous politically secular Hindus.

  54. T. Kar said, on December 21, 2006 at 6:31 pm

    It is time to get rid of the so called secularism. let the Hindus say they are Hindus. Don’t bother. This is he fate Tamilnadu deserved it. It is because of the fact that they never get along with the national mainstream. Unless HIndus won’t fight for their cause, in future things will become more severe. Lets have our children the RSS education with modern needs being satisfied. Say yourself that I am a Proud Hindu. So am I.

  55. SUKUMAR said, on December 22, 2006 at 11:10 am

    SHOOT EACH ND EVERY POLITICIAN…. and the youth SHOULD STIOP VOTING for anybody above the age 30…. BLODDY GREY HARIRED IDIOTS….

  56. Balaji said, on December 22, 2006 at 7:02 pm

    It is very disheartening to see none of the political leaders of the ruling party had codemended the act of dismantling many idols at the places of worship at various parts of the state. We all know that these set of rouges who are actually ruling the state would be very happy about the series of events that had taken place. We r fed up with these old foxes. Just imagine what would have happened if the same had taken place near a mosque or a church. I’m afraid the entire nation would have been burnt. These bloddy DK idiots are jobless and they do not have any other work other than critising our Hindu Culture. They have contributed nothing to the society other than conducting meetings just for the sake of scolding Bhrahmins.

    Allowing to install a scoundrel’s(periyar) statue in front of the most holiest palce of Hindu religion itself is a mistake & moreover the wordings that are inscribed below the idiot’s(Periyar) statue is much more worse. It is actually a verbal crime commited on the followers of Hindu relegion or rather all those who have faith in god.

    The DK party should be dissolved and be announced as a extremist party.We should teach the younger generation to follow our culture. We should lead by example. These DK scoundrels shouldn’t be allowed to speak adversly of any Hindus of this Country.

    This is mainly because we neglect our own culture. We should be strong enough to reflect & follow our culture. Why do we hesitate to have the sacred ash & vermilion or the nama on the forehead which the is first & foremost duty of our culture. Is anybody going to kill us on doing this.

    Let’s save our culture from these Jackals……. Let these Jackals howl in the forest…… to hell with these people. We r Hindus… Say Vande Mataram… Bharath mata ki jai…

  57. Indian said, on December 26, 2006 at 7:46 pm

    Looks like all the people who wrote comments earlier against Periyar and the Tamil culture or some even the Tamil language are all educated. I wonder if they are really educated. None of them seem to know the proper history of how the dravidian movement started. They only look at the point that Periyar was against brahmins… Periyar was never against any individual he was against brahminism. If you don’t know what that is please read up on it instead of getting angry at something you don’t even understand. Think of the years of oppression of the women and the low caste people… I am from a low caste family. I am proud to say that Periyar is my hero. I am educated and in a good position only because of Periyar and the dravidian movement… I am from a village where the low caste people are not allowed to enter the ‘MIGHTY Aghragharam’. So Don’t tell me about how it feels to be oppressed.

    I am glad the Periyar movie is coming out. The truth should be told. The guy who is taking this movie was the same guy who took the Bharathiyar movie… He did extensive research doing the other movie… It is not like a periyar follower doing the movie.

    I also hate all the politicians beginning from Ghandhi and Nehru. They are not that different from the politicians who are emerging now.

    Who ever that Srinivas guy was… who said some bad comments about someone’s language…. You have no right to talk about other’s language… For a true tamilian their pride is their language. you don’t have to agree with any one… but insulting others?? I am not sure how people like you go on living….

    I don’t believe in God… but I also don’t like people destroying temples and priests or Periyar statues also for that matter… People who do these acts are very stupid and don’t have anything else to do in their lives… I don’t understand why it is a shocking news that the Kanchi priest accused in this matter… He was already in jail for committing murder and other disgusting acts…

    So all I ask you people who are so happy to comment about periyar and his movement.. do so after reading up the history and knowing the facts.. All I see in all your comments is hatred against the Tamil non brahmins… having that kind of hatred is kind of a sickness.

    Anyway I ask all of you to watch the movie once it comes out and be truthful and accept things for what they are… No one is perfect. Get the hatred out of yourself and look at humans as humans… That is what Periyar wanted… Everyone is equal and should be treated equal.. is that too much to ask? Apparently so…

  58. Barbarindian said, on December 27, 2006 at 3:47 pm

    Indian,

    You seem to have a lot of pent up anger. Do you support a separate Dravid nation?

    I am all for historical facts to come out but you know it as well as everyone else how that happens. For instance, as a person not very up to date on Tamil history, I have to take your words at the same value as the following article:
    http://www.tamilnation.org/forum/shanranjit/dravidian.htm

    Are people being treated equal in TN? Why are so many Dravidian parties? Who are getting the true benefits?

  59. Nagaraj Rao said, on December 27, 2006 at 9:10 pm

    India always suffered from bigotry and hate for each other. When the departing English could not find anything in South India to promote their divide and rule policy, they invented the brahmin and non brahmin concept for division. The Madras presidency with headquaters in Madras made Tamil as the pricipal language to the rest of south india. The notorious Miller report did the mischief in portraying Brahmins as the oppressors and the non brahmins as opressed. Naicker a kannada speaking man from Erode had no following before, but suddenly became a messaih for non brahmin tamils to take revenge on Brahimins. The Tirunalveli iyers had done some mischief in illtreating the non brahmins. This enabled Naiker who called himself as Periyar (big brother in Tamil) to instigate the mejority non brahims against the minority brahmins. Tamil Nad kicked out many brahmin families who found shelter in Karnataka and most of them in Bangalore. However these kicked out brahmins brought their tamil bigotery with them and poor Kannadigas had to pay a price. Even today these tamil buggers are dominating in Bangalore. The chappal garlending of Periyavar of Kanchi mutt portrait, the vandalising of Brahmin mutts an their properties were all a result of this conflict. This spread to neighbouring Karnataka,then called Mysore state. Even the Maharaja was influenced to appoint the first Vokkaliga by name Boranna Gowda from Hassan as his diwan. The Goundars from Coimbatore and the Gowdas of Mysore joined hands to become a united front for non brahmins. The Nadars,Mudaliars,Chettiars and others became the second group of non brahmins. The infighting between saivaite and vyshnavites weakened the Brahmin front. The flight of well qualified brahmins first to North India an later to west is still continuing.

  60. Guru said, on December 28, 2006 at 4:38 am

    Just bcos brahmins discriminated against other people hundreds of years ago, why should the current brahmins suffer from majorities? Senseless it is.
    Britishers captured us, killed many of us, oppressed us, treated us badly just 60 years ago. Are we spreading hatred against them or the West in general? Aren’t we at peace with them, having good business and cultural relationship with them? People who do anti brahminism do not attack or hate any british tourist accusing them of dominating us 60 years ago.
    Brahmins have fought for the country. Many of them have directly or indirectly contributed to the freedom movement. Bharathiar, VVS Iyer, Rajaji, S.Radhakrishnan to name a few.
    If Periyar feels castes shouldn’t matter, why does he talk about brahmin caste? He did say all castes are equal, but he also wanted one caste to be discriminated against. It’s ironical and periyar is a CASTEIST!

  61. rc said, on December 28, 2006 at 7:49 am

    >> I am educated and in a good position only because of Periyar and the dravidian movement… >>

    How ? Are you referring to the quota system ?

    In any case, let us assume the brahmins are pure evil. It does not in any way change the requirement that social justice policies must be framed only on solid data. All Periyar followers cannot be automatically considered “socially and educationally backward” and therefore classified as OBC. This would create a vested interest in claiming to be a Periyar follower independent of his ideology.

  62. rc said, on December 28, 2006 at 8:04 am

    Nagaraj Rao,

    The roots of the dravidian movement can be traced to the Justice Party. It had nothing to do with the backward castes. It was simply a case of forward castes such as (Reddiars, Mudaliars, Naidus, Chettiars) jostling for power with other forward castes (Iyers, Iyengars, Raos – the brahmins).

    Backwardness came into the picture only in 1950 after the first amendment. It was decreed that communal quotas were illegal and now a caste must actually be “socially and educatinally backward” to avail of special benefits. There was unfortunately no clear definition of “socially and educationally backward”.

    This allowed any community to made an awkward trade. In exchange for calling themselves “backward” they got preferential access to medical and other education. If one community did it, others saw its benefits and wanted in on the action too. They stood to lose if they did not play the game. The genes for “claiming backwardness” thus spread though the gene pool.

    This brings us to the state of affairs today. The Rajputs of Rajasthan are the latest to be wanted to be classified as OBC. Why not ? In the absence of data, anything goes.

  63. Me said, on December 28, 2006 at 8:52 am

    The hatred and killing will reduce if the kids get proper education. Caste is EVIL! Periyar is EVIL! No statues of humans are reqd in India, not on public places. If some organization needs statue, let them install in their own private space.

  64. srinias said, on December 30, 2006 at 5:20 am

    The kicked out TN Brahmins living in Bangalore also show this Tamil biogetry,While recruiting employess,they give preference to Tamil brahmins first ,then to other Tamilians and lastly to others.You can clealy see their cultural biogetry,

    Iam not against any language.I apologise to Indian if he is hurt.But TN should respect other languages too which is not the case.Also it has no right to show disrespect to Hindu gods.If you guys have problems with fellow tamil brahmins it is your problem.Dont hurt our sentiments.

  65. Revathi said, on December 31, 2006 at 2:00 pm

    Dear Srinias,

    I dont understand your comment. The tamil-kannada friction as far as I know involves Kaveri and Veerappan. I dont know how tamil brahmins were connected to these issues. Perhaps you have something against
    CV Raman, R.K. Narayan and ShriShri Ravishankar.

    Revathi

  66. srinias said, on January 1, 2007 at 12:58 pm

    Revathi,

    Our culture always respects and admires great people irrespective of their caste and state.

    Irrespective of caste ,most of the TN people(including settlers in other states) treat the other dravidian languages as inferior to Tamil and they always try to convince others about their superior culture etc..This really hurts others and creats a negative impression.I request TN people to realize their folly and join the main stream.

    Tamil is a great language along with kannada,Telugu and malayalam.

  67. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 2:08 pm

    I don’t want anyone to take my comments for the truth… You want to know the truth you do your own research was my point. I don’t have any pent up anger against any one.

    Periyar did not call himself Periyar and Periyar does not mean big brother. This is exactly what I am talking about… don’t talk about things as if you know it all. Periyar’s title was given to him by women. Please find out the facts before blabbering.

    I am not in a good position because of any quotas. I never had any special treatments. None of the females before my generation had gone to school. Other girls in my age group in my village were not educated. Because my father, who was a follower of Periyar, I am educated today.

    What Periyar said was think about people are saying without blindly following it. He said that in every meeting to things he said also.

    Please do understand why the dravidian movement happenned. I will tell you what used to happen in my village. People (non brahmins) were given chores by the brahmins to do with out any pay. If the don’t obey them they were let go at that time and lot of silent things were done to ruin that disobient’s life… like turning the local police against that person… Was that fair? Was it wrong to bring people to light at that period? That was what periyar did. If you think that was wrong… there is something totally wrong with you as a human being.

    I am still saying the same thing… research on what you are going to comment on. How many of you commenting against Periyar have read a book on him?

    When Ghandhi and Periyar met once, Ghandi asked Periyar why he is alwyas bad mouthing the brahmins… To that Periyar asked Ghandhi to point to some brahmins who are good. Ghandhi pointed to one person.. For that Periyar said.. even a mahatma like you can only find one good brahmin for a dhurathama like me… I can’t find any was the reply.

    Again, I ask all of you to look at the history.. and read up on what went on instead of bad mouthing any one or anyone’s action. I have no problem with any of you just the irrational comments you are making.

  68. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    To rc,

    What I meant about you could be a Periyar follower even if you don’t believe in God. Just because you don’t agree with one point some one says doesn’t mean that you disagree with everything he says. I am not saying who ever is a follower of Periyar has to belong to certain class…

    What I meant is treating everyone equal, educating the poor and try to live a caste free life.

    I know of some brahmin ladies who won’t eat in other people’s house… One such despicable lady came to my house along with her daughter in law (who was my friend) I offered them something as that was my family habit. My friend took it and the MIL didn’t want it.. I was being polite and asked her if she wanted something else instead and she rudely told me that she won’t eat at houses like mine…. I had to show her the door and call my friend to apologize later. My friend being a North Indian didn’t quite understand what her MIL was doing. It was very disgusting. My friend described to me how filthy her MIL keeps her house and her daily cleaning routines are. This didn’t not happen in some remote village. This happenned 2 years back in the United States of America. What do you all say to this?

    I also have lot of friends who are brahmins… I look at them only as human beings and a fellow Indian… As far as I have seen only brahmins go around saying that they are brahmins and acting very proud being a brahmin… Please do let me know if I am wrong…

  69. Barbarindian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    I am still saying the same thing… research on what you are going to comment on. How many of you commenting against Periyar have read a book on him?

    Why should I read about Periyar? There is no relevance for Periyar where I come from, even from the perspective of the social reforms you are talking about. They were done much before Periyar came into existence, by other dudes. Even trying to read didn’t help, because if I read any contrarian remark you will not like it.

    My specific question to you is that do you support a Dravidian nation?

    My only gripe is that the sob stories you narrate has no relevance for my region. I don’t see why 75% people from your state should get benefits at a national level. At a state level, feel free to do as you please.

  70. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    To BarbarIndian,

    I am not for any seperate nation in TN. Just equality and justice is what I want for everyone not just people in TN. Thanks for the nice article you pointed out… That is the pathetic state of TN whether anyone acknowledges it or not. Every politician is after money. Periyar was not like that… he left his rich family and suffered for humanity.

    How much ever everyone talks about this… bottom line is people are still not treated right. People never accept the rebels initially.. What Martin Luther King was wrong???? How is Periyar’s movement any different??

    to Nagaraj Rao,
    The british did not come up with Brahmins and non Brahmins. I am sorry that was a little funny how you came up with that. It goes back way before the british rule. Please find out some information before your comments..

    I keep posting comments here knowing that my comments are most unwelcome….. but I want everyone to understand from where it all started and how unfair things are still in India…

    Let us all come together and try to be good humans…

  71. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    BarbarIndian,

    I am not sure what region you belong to… My SOB story was every non brahmins sob story. So for people in my region the movement Periyar created was very important and very valuble… Only people who suffered can understand what went on… I ONLY TOLD MY SOB STORY SO PEOPLE LIKE YOU CAN RELATE TO IT. Looks like you are too shallow of a person to be in other person’s shoes for a few seconds…

    Also please point me to some of the DUDES you mentioned that already did those reforms in your region.. And you yourself are agreeing to Periyar as a person of reforms…

    Your comments seem very selfish and a person like you will never care for others or even try to understand others problems…. It is really too bad..

  72. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:26 pm

    BarbarIndian,

    I am not sure of what 75% of benefits my state is getting… please explain

  73. rc said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    >> What I meant is treating everyone equal, educating the poor and try to live a caste free life. >>

    Absolutely.

    However, you cannot lead a caste free life – if caste is used as the central criterion to confer special rights on groups of people. These special rights are acceptable for SCs and STs. When you talk about OBCs – we must have solid data about the social and educational backwardness. Anecdotes cannot be a substitute.

    I have read about Periyar, including many of his speeches. If Periyar has liberated you / your community – that is great. I have nothing against that. This cannot be used to confer special rights by law to a caste or set of castes. The dravidian movement has done just that.

    About the mother-in-law anecdote.

    I agree the lady is anachronistic, perhaps even rude or insulting. You did the right thing by showing her the door. You are free to publicize this event and tear down the deplorable customs of these people. What you cannot do is : to use these examples to take detours from Article 14 of the constitution (the right to equality). Even though the lady is obnoxious and pompous, she deserves the exact same laws as an enlightened person like yourself.

    The most obnoxious man as well as the most righteous man must be treated equally under the law. This is the cornerstone of modern civilization. If this is not to be, then who will judge righteousness !

  74. Barbarindian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    Your comments seem very selfish

    I don’t see why I shouldn’t be selfish. I haven’t done anything illegal in my life. To the best of my knowledge, my ancestors up to several generations ago never hurt any Dalit/OBC or whomsoever.

    I have played by the rules. If you want to change the game, there better be some logic behind it. If people are still not treated right by someone else, please identify and penalize them.

    By the way, are Dalits treated okay in TN? Also, why are there several Dravidian parties?

  75. Barbarindian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    I am not sure of what 75% of benefits my state is getting… please explain

    You are distorting my statement. I said 75% of people from your state are getting benefits. By that I mean reservation benefits. Read about it on this very blog, which is the first one to run this expose. Now it is common knowledge.

  76. Barbarindian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:38 pm

    By the way, it looks like the famed Periyar movie will be subsidized by TN government to the tune of 95 lakhs. So much for public support.

  77. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    rc,

    I some what agree with you.. that is why I said… TRY to live a caste free life.

    I can also understand that upper caste people’s anger towards the lower caste people gettign quotas and other things… This is my explanation for it.. See a brahmin family who was educated all along have a good education backgournd and have the knack of scoring better in exams and other things while a SC or others who don’t have the similar backkgorund will never come up. That was the original intention of quotas… I understand that now the background has to be checked thoroughly to give such quotas… I am for what ever is fair…

    I understand that people might abuse this… I even know of Brahmins trying to change their ceritificates showing them as SC’s… You guys are only looking at major cities and places like that… The people who really should benefit from these rules are the downtrodden ones in the inner villages. If equal rules prevail for them also.. do you think they will come out of their misery ever? I don’t think so…

    I really do understand that it seems unfair… but fairness never existed for the suppressed and the poor…

    I am all ears if you have some suggestions for these problems… And also I think you are mocking me by calling me the enlighted one… That is really okay… if I can get across some point today.. I will live with any mockery..

  78. Indian said, on January 2, 2007 at 8:06 pm

    BarbarIndian,

    I was only commenting about Periyar since people were calling him an idiot and this and that in this forum… I am not sure if we both are talking about the same thing…

    Dalits are not treated properly still in India.. that is what I am trying to say… That is why I am supporting Periyar and his views so others will see the issue here…

    Since you don’t care much about TN and its people.. why do u care about the 95 lakhs? it is not your tax money…

    And you are sure that none of your ancestors hurt anyone?!?!…. Come on! what is your proof? Anyway I find no use in talking a selfish person like you !!
    Have a good life!!! I mean it in the most sincere way!

  79. rc said, on January 2, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    >> If equal rules prevail for them also.. do you think they will come out of their misery ever? I don’t think so… >>

    I dont think so either.

    Therefore the social policies must be targeted specifically to “poor oppressed people from interior villages”. The dravidian movement put the focus of social justice on the non-beneficiaries (the brahmins), which is patently wrong. Let the brahmins go to hell (so to speak) – they are outside the social justice net. The focus must be on the beneficiaries.

    Are all castes within the OBC groups getting benefits in a fair manner ?
    Why are Nari Kuravars and Isay Velallars classified together as MBC ? Do you think the Nari Kuravars (who still hunt small animals not as a hobby but for food) stand a chance in that group ? I have a story about a Narikurava student in this blog somewhere, read it.

    TN does not exclude the creamy layer (thanks to Jayalalithas antics), this has literally deprived thousands of poor backward students to benefit from quotas from the same “interior villages”. All dravidian parties are against identifying the creamy layer. Care to explain why ?

    Finally, if no data about backwardness is forthcoming, it can be assumed that reverse-discrimination is passing off as social justice in that state. The brahmins have a legitimate grievance because there are lakhs who are dirt poor (priests, cooks, those who make pickles and other condiments, small time astrologers).

    Sorry, I didnt mean to jab at you when I said “enlightened like you”. Substitute with “enlightened like us”.

  80. Barbarindian said, on January 3, 2007 at 3:52 am

    From what I read about Periyar, I can only respect the dude. There is a lot of noise on both sides which I have chosen to ignore.

    Protest caste based prejudices? Good. Elevate status of women? Good. Speak out against discrimination and ill treatment? Great. Critique the jingoistic and ritualistic/superstitious aspects of religions? Great again.

    These are all well accepted humanistic principles that are undisputed. The trouble begins when people start using the legacy to further their nasty ambitions.

    If you want to protect Periyar being called bad names, you have to restrict his legacy to the original purpose. When people start using the name beyond its scope, expect some feathers to be ruffled. As simple as that.

  81. Indian said, on January 3, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    rc,

    I agree with you to a great extend…. I don’t think any politician of today cares about the general mass.
    The only reason I wrote in this forum was I couldn’t take it when Periyar’s name being tarnished like that.
    Since the time of Periyar a lot of things have changed. But still the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. The politicians be it JJ or MK or anyone for that matter should start caring for the upcoming of the people to a great extend.. They are mostly interested in getting back at each other and putting up ugly fights. Something drastic should happen.. every class should be reanalyzed… but who is willing to do that? Everyone wants to gain as much as they can in the short period they are going to be in power… People in general should develop an open mindedness.
    I don’t want any brahmins or non brahmins to go to hell in the sense rc mentioned.
    I am sure you remember when the DMK came to power they came up with all caste people could offer poojas at temples… What is wrong with that idea? Why did so many people get upset over that issue… Also when ADMK came to power they came up with the rule that there should be no sacrificies in the temples.. What is wrong with that idea? Why did so many protest?

    I think education for all is what is needed… No kid should be working… Education will get them out of their low social status.. I do a lot of sponspor ships for education in India… I don’t look at their caste… just the family income. Many people have approched us (I have rejected some of those people not based on caste.. but on their qualification and their financial status).

    I think well off people like us should have an open mindedness and should be willing to take on some societial responsibility instead of bickering at each other and hoping the politicians will change. Slowly things will change.

  82. Revathi said, on January 3, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    It seems that a lot of people that are poor and uneducated still see their poverty to be related with the atrocity of a phantom community such as brahmins who have neither the number nor the money power to act. It is similar to the germans who thought that if they got rid of the jews all their problems of unemployment would be solved. When all the jews were actually gone they ran out of scape goats and had to attack the real problem. So may be the people in TN will try and do some introspection now that they dont even have a dead horse to flog.

  83. Indian said, on January 5, 2007 at 3:09 pm

    Revathi,

    I think the main reason that the Nazi’s wanted to get rid of the Jews was because they thought the Nazi’s thought they were of a superior race the Aryas. Because Hitler hated the Jews and wanted Germany to be full of the Aryan race. They were literally trying to pick people with blond hair and green eyes to be included in the aryan race. This is what I learned from my high school teacher in the US.

    I don’t think anyone is after the poor old brahmins who are suffering or atleast that was not the intention. It is a widely known fact that the Shankarachari controls a lot of things that goes on the political side. The only reason he ended up in the jail a while ago was some personal tiff between him and JJ. At one point the big actors and all had to pay regular visits to him to keep themselves from being raided.

    So everything that is going on is a political game where the poor are suffering whether it is a brahmin or a non brahmin.. I really do hope everyone understands this simple fact and it is not about killing the helpless brahmins..

  84. Brahman said, on January 11, 2007 at 3:44 am

    I think Indian is a DMK/DK troll. Who is oppressing the Dalits today in TN? Who is cutting their heads off in Theni, Coimbatore? The problem is Brahmans are a soft target since they try to avoid conflict as much as possible. I can relate many instances of discrimination myself. My father had his sacred thread cut off in Kumbakonam, my grandmother was threatened with removal of her nine-yard saree by cockroach DK activists, my sister was denied a govt job by a DK activist, and I was denied admission in Anna University and made fun of in another private OBC run college and asked if I had any Brahman sisters for giving company. If I had been a Muslim, there would have been a suicide bomb mission at DMK headquarters. I hate the TN govt so much it hurts physically sometimes. And all of them are like this Indian, poisonous snakes everywhere who keep spreading malicious propaganda and are directly responsible for the ethnic cleansing that is going on. This Periyar inspired hatred has crushed TN Brahmans, and the oppression of Dalits still goes on in TN. Someday with all the anger that is burning inside, the sea will rise and there will be a great Tsunami which will come and sweep away that wretched land of TN forever. Everyone, of all castes in that blighted land should perish and it should forever be under the sea.

  85. srinias said, on January 11, 2007 at 4:35 am

    This kind of hatred between brahmins and atheists is peculiar to TN.Why this is not happening in other parts of India?What inference can we make?Three possibilities
    1.Because of the extreme hot conditions in TN, people in general hate fellow beings.
    2.Tamil brahmins were so supressive that a section of the atheists bacame a bunch of hate mongers.
    3.The atheists in other states are more balanced and they oppose only ritualistic part of brahminism and not the brahmin as a fellow human being.

    There should be a reason why this is not the case in other states.Don’t stereotype and say that tamil culture is graet etc..

  86. srinias said, on January 11, 2007 at 4:42 am

    After reading the post by Brahman (if it is true) i felt sorry for him.May be it is high time for Tamil brahmins in villages and small towns to convert to Islam/christianity .Then even karunanidhi and co will come to them for their votes.They can consider this option if they are in serious trouble..

  87. rc said, on January 11, 2007 at 6:41 am

    srinias,

    You are correct. This is a social phenomenon that is beyond my comprehension. TN brahmins were not oppressive by any stretch of the imagination. They did not even control the rural economy – most did not own much land. The most oppressive brahmins without doubt were the Namboodiris of Kerala. Yet, in Kerala there is harmony and no hatred towards that community.

    Why is TN still the land of hatred towards this community ?

    This is my best guess – the anti-brahminism in TN was a reaction to the “communal GO” being knocked out by the newly independent India. This cause deep resentment in the other upper castes who now had to call themselves “socially and educationally backward” to avail of the same benefits they used to enjoy under the communal GO. They saw a brahmin conspiracy in the judicial system due to the large number of brahmins in the judicial profession at that time.

    One important thing:
    Anti brahminism is prevalent mainly among other upper castes, not among dalits or most backward classes. Dalit leader Dr. Krishnaswamy has said a brahmin teacher helped him at a young age where as the other upper castes resented him going to school. Both Krishnaswamy and Tiruma have been received with respect at Shankar mutt and Chidambaram temple (apparently the bastions).

  88. rc said, on January 11, 2007 at 6:49 am

    Brahman,

    Sorry to hear your story.

    The requirement to establish backwardness in order to avail “OBC Status” will be the ultimate test of the dravidian movement. It will settle once and for all whether it is driven by social justice or by hatred towards one community.

  89. Revathi said, on January 11, 2007 at 8:27 am

    If there was a fault among the tamil brahmins it was of being separate and elite and developing their own dialect. That’s why I cited the similarity between the jews and brahmins. It dont know if there exists a parallel in the other south indian languages such as kannada. Perhaps shrinias could tell us.

  90. srinias said, on January 11, 2007 at 9:03 am

    Revathi,

    The brahmins in states like Karnataka and Andhra are also elitist and they have their own dialect and food habits etc..

    The upper castes of Andhra like kammas,Reddys in AP got educated along with brahmins and they dont have much animosity towards brahmins.So the forward caste base is much wider and the influence of brahmins after independence is limited to religion.The OBCs in Andhra are the real OBCs if we exclude creamy layer.Also the population of brahmins in AP is much smaller and is arounf 2%.

    In karnataka, the lingayats being very religious are not against brahmins.

  91. Indian said, on January 11, 2007 at 1:47 pm

    Brahman,
    Firstly, I am sorry about what all happened to your family. I can relate to it as my grandfather and even my father were denied the postions they eared by some brahmins.

    I hate the present DK,DMK,ADMK and what all K’s there are in TN. I am a Periyar follower though.

    I think you missed my point when I said..

    So everything that is going on is a political game where the poor are suffering whether it is a brahmin or a non brahmin.. I really do hope everyone understands this simple fact and it is not about killing the helpless brahmins.

    In every other state the general mass are getting educated compared to the other south indian states. I think the people in TN are slowly but surely getting there… It is taking them longer because no one really cares much about the poor. The other states seem to be in harmony because they are educated.. it is not the same in TN.

    What ever said and done.. as a Tamilian I feel that the Tamil culture is a great culture… I am very proud to be a Tamilian. I don’t understand why Srinivas is having a problem with Tamils being proud of what they are… Just because I am saying my culture is great.. I am not saying I am superior and others are inferior.

    I also see that no one bothered to comment on all of us educated people taking some soceital responsibility.

  92. srinias said, on January 12, 2007 at 6:16 am

    Iam surprised to hear from Indian that lack of education is the reason for hatred in TN.I dont believe it.In AP and karntaka too the literacty rate is not much higher.It is the opposite.In TN the educated class and the associated politicians are responsible for the spread of hatred among poor and downtrodden . The educated and the politicians in karnataka and AP behave in a much dignified way and their actions are in genearl not agianst any group or community. Our culture will be reflected through our actions and thoughts.Culture is not something happened in the past.

  93. vijay said, on January 17, 2007 at 11:14 am

    I feel ashamed when i think i was born in TN. Brahmins have no safety. the police don’t care to protect them because the politicians don’t care since they are very few when compared to Dravidian mother fuckers. C.N.Annadurai, E.V.Ramaswamy, Karunanidhi are the three main bastards behind these trouble. These bastards know how to play it safe. M.G.R. was good, Kamaraj was excelent. Without Brahmins, TN will go to dogs. SC and ST can’t do a shit. They are sub-human. No wonder i myself may plot a most damaging explosive in TN. Hey dravidian bastards, while you close your fist, i will knock you down, while to go for a dagger, i will rip you. SC and ST are bastards. They are sub-humans. Annadurai, Periyar and Karunanidhi are the three master minded bastards. I hope not to see the bastard’s statue in front of the temple.

    till next time, Vijay

  94. Indian said, on January 17, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Vijay,

    What sweet words… Your language really shows who you really are! Sorry to see so much hatred in you.

    I hope you have a good life.

  95. srinias said, on January 18, 2007 at 4:08 am

    One reason for Tamil culture to degenerat to such low levels is the impact of the movie culture on their politics..It seems that the new trend in TN is that the Dravidian political parties are losing their support base and more more parties supported by caste groups are becoming popular.TN is drifting without any direction.

  96. vijay said, on January 18, 2007 at 4:33 am

    99% of Tamil speaking population have a closed mind. Hardcore tamils and born tamil are ruffians and some kind similar. Moreover the successful personalities from TN are not Tamils or they are Brahmins alone. Can any one say challenge me on this. Rajini is a marati but few says he is a kannad. Kamal is a Brahmin, Mani Ratnam is a Brahmin, A.R.Rehman is not a Tamil and not a SC/ST, A.P.J is a muslim vegetarian, R.Venkatraman ex president is a brahmin, S.P.B is a brahmin, K.J.Yesudas is a christian malayal more and more……the one and only gem of a man is ilayaraja who is from a low caste but he is god fearing and respects Brahmins and so he won. Tamils refuse to learn Hindi or English easily. Whereas people from Karnataka, Kerala and Andra never refuse and so they survive in north easily than a tamil fellow. DMK group with C.N.Anna’s ideology made a protest against the national language and English. Periyar, Anna and Karunanidhi know the sentiments of tamils, particularly the majority Dravidians who are their vote bank. Periyar, Anna and Karunanidhi often indulge in acts like PROTEST AGAINST HINDI, PROTEST AGAINST ENGLISH, PROTEST AGAINST BRAHMINS, PROTEST AGAINST GOD etc just to keep the Tamil speaking Dravidians as comfortable fools for ever who thinks that Annadurai and Periyar has realy done good for them in the past and so Karunanidhi will do now. The fact is Annadurai just promoted tamil language and pressured central govt. for seperate state in name of Dravida Nadu, other than this nothing useful. Periyar- What was preached and practised by him is what happening in tamilnadu. If he had told good, then incidents like this will never happen after his death. As far as Karunanidhi is concerned, no comment is required, he is just culprit number one. He and his family are amoung 50 richest from India in forbes magazine. Veeramani of DK and his group are cowards. They attack temple which is non living or brahmins who are by nature so humble and soft. These people can attack Brahmins in name of god knowing they wont hit them back. same time there are other castes which believe is god as much as brahmins do, why DK never attack any other caste in name of god? because they know, if they do so they will be paid back in same coins.

  97. rc said, on January 18, 2007 at 5:33 am

    Vijay,

    Your post 3 steps back was most inappropriate. I tried deleting it but wordpress software seems to crash. I am very very liberal with comments (out of 1000+ comments I have only deleted only one so far)

    Do not attack groups of people like that. Calling a group (SC/ST) subhuman is not acceptable atleast on this blog. I understand that the brahman community in the state of TN has a legitimate complaint of reverse discrimination. This is due solely to the arbitrary classification of groups as “backward” – it is NOT due to the really disadvantaged. Focus your energy on the root of the issue.

  98. vijay said, on January 18, 2007 at 10:12 am

    I introduce my self as Vijay 25 from Trichy(TN). I left Trichy 3 yrs ago and TN an year back. I would like to throw some light on E.V.R. first. E.V. Ramasami Naicker was born on sep 17 1879, He was from a prominent Kannada Naicker caste. An atheist, anti-Hindu.He went on a pilgrimage to Varanasi to worship in the famous Siva temple Kashi Vishwanath in 1904.Periyar organized anti-Hindi protests in 1938.Periyar declared Indian independence as a day of slavery and declared it as a day of mourning, when no great National leaders have done so, why an insignificant specimen who is not popular even in TN did such a nonsense? Periyar fought for the separation of Tamil areas from India, just think !!!! Periyar waged a cold war against Brahmins. This made all the Brahmins jointedly fight against him even on reasonable rights of the other castes. Even now long after his death Brahmins hate him and condemn him. EVR has been accused of abusing Brahmins with vulgar language and running a hate campaign against them. EVR’s followers have broken temple idols, cut sacred threads and tufts from brahmin priests, and have often portrayed brahmins in the most derogatory manner in their meetings and magazines which no true reformer from good family will dare to do, is he a man of priciples? say now. Gandhi did not like his views as he wanted to bring in reforms gradually; Periyar bolted away from the freedom movement and never took part in major movements for Indian freedom. Periyar during his meetings will breath a sigh of frustration saying “Ada Rama” if there is a power cut. why the fuck should he say “Rama” instead he could have said “ada tamil” ??? . He married a minor girl when he was above 65 and at the same time promoting the evils of child marriage and respect for woman. He adopted Goebbels principle to promote his ideas. “A LIE REPEATED 10000 TIMES WILL BE CONSIDERED TRUTH” (Joseph Goebbels). Here is my quintessence – India less Tamilnadu will flourish, Indians less Tamils will lead. Tamilnadu without Brahmins will go to dogs. Once i bring my family out of TN, i will enter TN.

  99. Indian said, on January 18, 2007 at 4:09 pm

    Vijay’s language is very inappropriate and very offensive.

    People like him should really be kicked out of communities (no matter which community he lives in)– may be TN will be a happier place if people like him left….

    Please answer one question.. why did Bharathiyar write… ‘Parpanai aiyan yendra kalamum pochu’…

  100. srinias said, on January 19, 2007 at 4:29 am

    After reading some of the posts, i understand that Periyar is a controversial figure.So why the atheists and politicians in TN want his statues everywhere?Is it for the sake of political advantage?Somehow the people of TN are deeply divided and i dont see any hope of their unity.
    It is high time that statues of all people (including Ambedkar,Gandhi)shall be removed from public places and confine them to the permises of their admirers.

  101. vijay said, on January 19, 2007 at 6:49 am

    If you think i am adsurd, then can you deny any one fact which i have provided? For your info, Barathiyar is a Brahmin. He never told there is nothing as caste, instead he told there should not be discrimination based on caste system. periyar didn’t stop there, he played underhand and never made it clear to the mass. Who has added value to TN Periyar or Barathiyar? who has caused trouble to mankind during his presence and after? periyar or barathiyar? A cow is useful when she is alive and ever if she dies. A pig is useful to some extent when alive but earn a bad name, after a pig dies its serves as food for some. Whereas periyar was a nuisance even when alive and a great nuisance after his death. I am not posting any offensive comments, since i have received a request from rc.

    • muthaiyan said, on April 21, 2017 at 5:25 pm

      Vijay is quite immature and ignorant about Periyar movement which is against exploitation of gullible and ignorant people in the name of religion ,against superstition and irrational practices and against denial of civil rights to major sections of the people..Periyar fought for the rights of women – education,widow remarriage and empowerment. He created an awareness among the oppressed people for self respect and self reliance..All the goals of his movement are noble and desirable during the time he lived although some of the actions his followers adopted are considered controversial. He was against brahminism and not against brahmins His close friend was Rajaji on whose death he wept He sacrificed his entire life for social reforms and in the process the vested interests of brahmins were injured. People should think and ponder over the ideals of Periyar movement instead of insulting and spitting poison and ill words on him Vijay should read Bharathiar!s song on children LIKE ODI VILAIYADU PAPPA AND JATHIHAL ILLAIYADI PAPPA.. Periyar was a widower and to take care of him in his old age he married Maniammi who was aged around 40 years Nobody can take licence to abuse a very unique and great person like Periyar

  102. vijay said, on January 19, 2007 at 7:14 am

    Its ridiculousness to call Ramaswamy Naiker as “Pagutharivu Pagalavan”. He has no sense, Dravidians think, if a man says there is no god he has all knowledge. E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker is a mere irrationality. If a person is ready to believe god only if he can see god then…….. How E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker know that he was born to Mr.Venkata ??? did he see his mother having sex with his father ??? answer me you DK fools….then how he know Venkata was his father. E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker know it because he had “Unconditional faith or trust” on his mother So when his mother pointed her finger towards Venkata and told he is your father,,,E.V.Ramaswamy Naicker believed that without boubt………………so you followers of the ultimate fool Ramaswamy Naicker…….God is there for those who believe in presence of eternal power, if you question the presence or think to prove you are smart like how Ramaswamy Naicker did then you are a blockhead. Thiruvalluvar the Brahmin great,,,he himself starts his liners with ”””Agara mudala……….Aadhi bagavan mudhattre ulagu””””

    I know M.Karunanidhi is already 80+ counting days, but i have a chance to meet Veeramani in future someday or other.

    There would be no one to frighten you if you refused to be afraid.
    Never go to bed furious, stay awake and plot your revenge.

    till next time, Vijay

  103. Indian said, on January 23, 2007 at 1:58 pm

    To Srinivas,

    Periyar has always been a controversial figure. The reason he wanted his statues all over the place is because he wanted people to ask what this guy was all about and to spread his words. I guess what he wanted was happenning..

    Vijay,
    I know that Bharathiyar was a brahmin. I really wanted to know why he said a statement like that. I just wanted an explanation. Can you offer one?

    For your information Thiruvalluvar is not a brahmin.

    You have every right to talk about what is on your mind as this is a free country… but it would be better if you tried to make sense. From your comments one can clearly see what a big racist you are. You are so against ST and SC and what is your problem when some one else is against Brahmins that too a dead man.

    You can go ahead and meet whom ever you want to meet… Just go to the middle of Trichy and say what you said in this forum if you have the guts. No matter what you say your comments are really cheap and is not even worth commenting about.

  104. srinias said, on January 27, 2007 at 6:09 am

    For some people Ambedakar is hero and for some Gandhi and for some more periyar.What iam saying is to remove all statues of these pepople from the public places as they are now creating rift among different sections rather than unifying them.The Govt of India shall pass a resolution to address this.These statues can be placed in private places or Govt mueseums.It seems that the the aim of TN Govt(all Dravidian parties) is only to create rift and get votes of some sections.

  105. Revathi said, on January 27, 2007 at 10:12 am

    dear srinias,

    I am sorry to say that the hatred of TN govt towards certain groups like brahmins, hindi speakers etc goes way beyond vote bank politics. It is indeed bordering on some sort of fascist, hitlerian ( i just coined this word) bias for which there is no rational explanation. Unfortunately, this hatred was spread to the population by teaching distorted versions of history and by completely alienating themselves culturally from the rest of India. We only hope that tamil intellectuals will rise to the occasion and put history back in the correct perspective. I recently met students from Mauritious who read tamil history and I had a very interesting discussion with them.

  106. rc said, on January 27, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Revathi,

    I started reading deeply about the social situation in TN only after Arjun Singhs quota in April last year. Believe it or not !

    The more I read, the more stunned I get at the social situation in that state. The depletion of this community from 16% in the 20’s to 4% today seems to be one of the most understudied social phenomena in this age.

    At the moment, my take is that the upper castes behind the dravidian movement (zamindars, dubashes, other landlords, mercantile castes) were really outraged by the outlawing of the communal GO in 1950. After the first amendment had passed, these elite communities had to either call themselves backward or let go of the quota. This was a tough call to make.

    Once interests were congealed around quota benefits – it was easy going for the dravidian parties. No party – either congress – nor communities – nor BJP – can hope to win a single seat without the help of either dravidian parties.

  107. ipoh2u345 said, on January 31, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    hello. it’s a nice day for your ideas and our money

  108. vimal said, on February 21, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    Would you require a statue for,
    a man who declared our independence day to be as black day
    a man who married his own step daughter (at the age of 70s where she was in 20s)
    a man with no guts to criticise Muslims and christians
    a man who was a framed hero of Vaikkom (Vaikkom protest was held by communist party leaders of Kerala and this guy merely participated and called as Vaikkom veerar)
    a man obstructed Hindi in TN for all other people to suffer
    a man with no respect to others (he called Anna durai, a bastard)
    a man who cannot stand any comments by others (He abused everyone for criticising his marriage with his own step daughter in public)
    a man who was begging Jinnah to have TN separated just like pakistan

    A statue for him…….. what a shame……….

  109. Nagaraja rao said, on March 12, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Dear friends,

    After reading all the comments, I just want to thank everybody except those who have used foul language. There is no reason to use such language even you hate somebody. Its a common practice among the factory,industrial workers to use the that famous four letter word to drive home a point forcefully. Even women in western world uses it. Its plain disgusting to hear in a common conversation of what takes place in the privacy of a room.

    In the case of EVR, I would like to add alphabet N and E to read NEVER rather than adding E to read EVER in front to drive home a point of saying that the world is better off without a EVR.

    Hatred of any sort only results in reverse hatred . The consequences are usually deadly. No winners and loosers all. Look at some of the Muslim countries and Sri Lanka. Once beautiful and now reduced to rubbles. Is it what we want for our motherland.

    Tamils if they feel superior or brahmins if they feel superior so be it. That does not mean others are inferior. If mother-in-law does not want to eat in your house so be it. Why show door to her. Brahmins by virtue of their learning,vegeterinism,bathing habits,decipline etc were prefered to do temple duties. So the saying goes cleanliness is next to godliness.

    The Bhaghavadgeetha verse ‘Chaturvarnam Maya Srishnam Guna Karma Vibhaghatah’-meaning the four classes of varna or jathi was created according to ones own Guna and Karma. It does not say it is herdetary or by inheritance. So the jathi of the new born is never the same as their parents. The method of procreation is same but the end product not nevessarily the same as its parents. So what is the sense in identifying somebody of his forefathers by just birth.

    To summarize, as the birth of Mahatma GHandhi was helpful to India, the birth of EVR was detrimental to India. If EVR was intelligent ,he could have appealed to the senses of the oppressed to resort to peaceful methods to overcome the oppression rather than to brahmin hatred. If the mighty British could be won over by Ghandhi why not the tiny population of Brahmins in Tamilnad (TN).

    EVR’s method only showed his lack of intelligence but gave room to violence which is still practised by his followers in TN and elsewhere. Many politicians of free India are like EVR and people are falling for it.

    The contribution to the good of historical,pre, post independent and today’s India by Brahmins are innumerable. So is that of non brahmins. We should celeberate it by forgetting the kind of people like EVR even it might appeal to few politicians. The GOD of Srirangam appeals to millions while EVR might appeal to Karunanidhi and few of his followers. So statue of EVR is most inappropriate in front of Lord Ranganatha or any other God .

  110. Nagaraja rao said, on March 12, 2007 at 3:28 pm

    Dear friends,

    After reading all the comments, I just want to thank everybody except those who have used foul language. There is no reason to use such language even you hate somebody. Its a common practice among the factory,industrial workers to use the that famous four letter word to drive home a point forcefully. Even women in western world uses it. Its plain disgusting to hear in a common conversation of what takes place in the privacy of a room.

    In the case of EVR, I would like to add alphabet N and E to read NEVER rather than adding E to read EVER in front to drive home a point of saying that the world is better off without a EVR.

    Hatred of any sort only results in reverse hatred . The consequences are usually deadly. No winners and loosers all. Look at some of the Muslim countries and Sri Lanka. Once beautiful and now reduced to rubbles. Is it what we want for our motherland.

    Tamils if they feel superior or brahmins if they feel superior so be it. That does not mean others are inferior. If mother-in-law does not want to eat in your house so be it. Why show door to her. Brahmins by virtue of their learning,vegeterinism,bathing habits,decipline etc were prefered to do temple duties. So the saying goes cleanliness is next to godliness.

    The Bhaghavadgeetha verse ‘Chaturvarnam Maya Srishnam Guna Karma Vibhaghatah’-meaning the four classes of varna or jathi was created according to ones own Guna and Karma. It does not say it is herdetary or by inheritance. So the jathi of the new born is never the same as their parents. The method of procreation is same but the end product not nevessarily the same as its parents. So what is the sense in identifying somebody of his forefathers by just birth.

    To summarize, as the birth of Mahatma GHandhi was helpful to India, the birth of EVR was detrimental to India. If EVR was intelligent ,he could have appealed to the senses of the oppressed to resort to peaceful methods to overcome the oppression rather than to brahmin hatred. If the mighty British could be won over by Ghandhi why not the tiny population of Brahmins in Tamilnad (TN).

    EVR’s method only showed his lack of intelligence but gave room to violence which is still practised by his followers in TN and elsewhere. Many politicians of free India are like EVR and people are falling for it.

    The contribution to the good of historical,pre, post independent and today’s India by Brahmins are innumerable. So is that of non brahmins. We should celeberate it by forgetting the kind of people like EVR even it might appeal to few politicians. The GOD of Srirangam appeals to millions while EVR might appeal to Karunanidhi and few of his followers. So statue of EVR is most inappropriate in front of Lord Ranganatha or any other God .

    Nagaraja Rao, Toronto, Canada

  111. smitha said, on March 23, 2007 at 12:35 pm

    One person has commented here that tamilians have a closed mind. Nothing can be more absurd.

    Face the facts :

    1. Show me one state other than TN having a person (not born in that state) as CM.
    2. Every year the max no of students passing out from Hindi prachar sabha are from T.N
    3. The max contribution on flag day is by T.N every year.
    4. Tamilians are being derisively called madrasis, they were targeted & driven out in Karnataka during the Cauvery issue, they were driven out from Bombay by the shivb sena & yet what do we have ? – a wing of the siv sena here (however miniscule it is), kannadigas who reside peacefully (they were not targeted).
    5. When C.Subramaniam was Governor of Maharashtra, Lata mangeshkar refused to receive the marathi sammelan award from him & insisted on getting it from the then CM, Sharad pawar.
    6. When Sivaji Ganesan was to preside over the IFFI in Calcutta a few years back, all the prominent film makers objected saying that a non Bengali should not be allowed to preside. He was finally replaced.
    7. I know of many friends residing in Chennai for the last 10 years without understanding even basic tamil words. Can U stay in any place outside T.N without knowing the local language?
    8. When 2 mallus/Bengalis meet, they converse in their mother tongue, but U when 2 tamailians meet – they converse in engliush? So much for tamil pride.

    Tamilians have always been given a raw deal – be it the mullaiperiyar, Cauvery, srilankan tamils….

    I am not saying this to ignite tamils ectarian tendencies but U cannot ignore facts.

  112. B Shantanu said, on March 24, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    RC,
    Shocking, worrying, deeply disturbing and raises fundamental questions to which there are no easy answers…what more can I say?

    http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2007/03/25/cover-up-or-blind-omission/

  113. Suba said, on April 15, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    Ambis and Mamis of “akkirahaaram” are spiiting their venoms on Periyar. Periyar never bothered about these personal attacks during his days itself. He was attacked with stones and slippers, for servicing the downtrodden and questioning the brahmanist dogmas. Periyar used to say, If one comes to service people he has to face all these. Still he is attacked by the religious chauvinists.

    Voices against periyar is predominant in internet. Brahmins are always waiting for the time to attack on periyar. On the other side, the people who have benefitted from Periyar’s struggle are either ignorant or selfish. In fact many of them are becoming ‘black brahmins’ (karuppu paarpanan). That is, following brahmanism in full swing.

    He was an individual leader who fought and broke the brahmist atrocties in Tamil Nadu.

    1. Untouchability
    2. Special hotels for brahmins (Brahmanaal hotel)
    3. Special status to brahmins in politics, business & education
    4. Exposed manu dharma
    5. Special status to sanskrit (inspired pride for Tamil language)

    Like Marx haunting Capitalists, Periyar was/is/will be always haunting the brahminical thugs. What to say, they can only break his statue not his ideology.

  114. realitycheck said, on April 16, 2007 at 3:04 am

    >> What to say, they can only break his statue not his ideology. >>

    Does anyone follow Periyars ideology today ? Is any one of his ideals (other than anti-brahminism) alive today ? Start with self respect and end with rationalism. By focusing only on his anti-brahminisn, people have shortchanged him.

    There was a time when an “intervention” from Periyar might have been required. Now he is just a vote catching device.

  115. smitha said, on April 18, 2007 at 7:28 am

    Periyar was more anti brahmin than anti caste. He always saw it as brahmins v/s non brahmins. No doubt he was successful in breaking the brahmin hegemony. But he refused to (or was afraid to) see that the dalits (SC/STs) were & are still treated as untouchables more by the non brahmins than by the brahmins.

    Periyar even went to the extent of saying that the prices of textiles had gone up bcos the dalit women had started wearing blouses. He did nothng to improve the condiytion of dalits. At most he addressed meetings organised by dalits. At DK meetings, dalits were confined to serving coffee & doing menial chores. He even lambasted the dalits once when they were targetted by other non brahmins.

    Can U show me the percentage of dalits in the DK run institutions today? It is negligible if not totally absent.

    Periyar ideals flopped even dutring his lifetimne. He said “cinemakaranga ellam koodathigal” meaning that cine guys are wastrels. But his main followers happened to have links with the cine world. He likeneed the thali to a dog’s collar but in the marraiges he conducted he had to bless them & hand it to the groom.

    He did not have the guts to crticise any other religion except hindusim. Once when he proclaimned that thirukural can be used as a guide for all religions, some muslims questioned him abt the status of Qoran. He remained silent.

    He came to public life in 1917 but he always used to sign as E.V.Ramasami Naicker till 1929. However till his death his friends & others always referred to him as “Naicker”. He never objected to that.

    He married maniammai who was aged 31 years (periyar was 76) ostensibly to safeguard his property. He could have adopted her as his daughter instead.

    His periyar thidal is given free of rent to christian prayer meetings. Strange rationalism!

    He based his commenst based on the aryan dravidan theory which has been proved totally false.

  116. smitha said, on April 18, 2007 at 7:31 am

    Suba,

    The very fact that statues have been put of EVR shows that his ideology has been a failure. He was all along against idol worship but see what his followers have done to him – Made him God.

    I am not justifying the attacks on his statue & also the counter attack thereafter. Both need to be condemned.

    But I just ask U 1 question – Just dare putting up his statue in front of any mosque or church. Then U can talk.

  117. Suba said, on April 18, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    Periyar was not anti-brahmin. He was against brahminism (Paarpaneeyam). Paarpaneeyam includes following and implementing the brahminist principles. He maintained his friendship with many of his brahmin friends including Rajaji, throughout his life.

    Periyar devoted his life to expose brahminism & hinduism. Because this is the only religion in the world which treats its people differently based on birth through caste system. Periyar was always against this varna system of brahminism and condemned the system which is filled with vengeance and hatred.

    Hinduism is like a pyramid structure, the shape of temple (kovil), which is built on caste system. Brahmins and upper castes always benefited from this system. Sudras and dalits where oppressed throughout the centuries. Brahmins used their caste and enjoyed special privilege for thousands of years. Periyar within his lifetime exposed this inhuman, fraudulent system.

    Smitha,

    You are partially quoting him. Many of the Periyar’s statements were partially quoted and misunderstood and used against Periyar. The quote should be read in its context. He was never against dalits. It is true that dalit membership was less in his movement. But this cannot be equated that he was not allowing them in his organization.

    He was always against the participation of his movement in electoral politics and cinema. So you cannot blame him by comparing with the so called followers.

    Prohibition should be preached in front of bars. Like wise Periyar’s statue shoud be placed in front of temples. i.e. Rationalism in front of superstition and hatred. Anti-brahminism in front of brahminist symbol, the temple.

  118. smitha said, on April 19, 2007 at 11:55 am

    Suba,

    Do U mean to say that there are no caste fdifferences in christianoty & islam. It only shows Ur ignorance. There are even today, seperate burial grounds for dalit christians. We all know the caste clashes between shia & sunnis in islam. I can go on & on.

    I have not partially quoted periyar. Please read the following.

    If one was asked, ‘Who invented the test tube baby?’ it is likely that a western scientist will be credited. But a Tamilian would contradict you, claiming that it was actually Periyar who was responsible for this scientific miracle. In the same vein if you asked him who introduced modernity to Tamil culture, he would once again name Periyar. There are many such appelations attached to him, the main one being the saviour of the Untouchables. This may explain the widespread culture of Periyar worship in Tamilnadu, notwithstanding the fact that he himself protested against all forms of idol worship. But instead of debating whether we should accept ‘their god’ as ‘our god’, the question is whether Periyar deserves to be regarded as the saviour of the untouchables?
    The Hindus organised a meeting in Mumbai on 30 September 1932, (i.e., a week after the signing of the Poona Pact), to form an All-India Anti-Untouchability League. Since Gandhi, who planned it, did not like the name, it was changed it to ‘Servants of Untouchables Society’. It was on this occasion that the Hindus joined together to fight against untouchability. There were eight members on the board. Ambedkar, M.C.Rajah and Rettamalai Srinivasan were included as representatives of the untouchables. All three subsequently withdrew from the board. Gandhi then renamed it as Harijan Seva Sangh.
    In his book, What Congress and Gandhi Have Done to the Untouchables, Ambedkar explains the circumstances which led to his joining this forum: ‘After the Poona Pact, I proceeded in a spirit of forget and forgive. I accepted the bona fides of Mr. Gandhi as I was asked to do by many of his friends. It was in that spirit that I accepted a place on the Central Board of the Sangh and was looking forward to play my part in its activities’ (133). He added that he had wanted to discuss the programme of the Sangh with Gandhi but could not do so as he had to leave for London to participate in the Third Round Table Conference. However, he did write a detailed letter to A.V. Thakkar, Secretary of the Sangh, giving concrete proposals regarding the services to be rendered by the Sangh.
    Ambedkar understood that Hindus approach the issue of untouchability in two ways. First, most Hindus believe that ‘the individual belonging to the Depressed Classes is bound up with his personal conduct.’ Second, they believe that ‘the fate of the individual is governed by his environment and circumstances.’ Accepting the second view as comparatively sound, Ambedkar felt that the League should not dissipate its energy fostering private virtue, but should concentrate on a programme ‘that will effect a change in the social environment of the Depressed Classes’ (135).
    The programme drafted by Ambedkar had four components: (i) a campaign to secure civil rights; (ii) equality of opportunity; (iii) social intercourse; and (iv) agency to be employed. Let us examine the significance of these proposals in detail.
    The campaign to secure civil rights: This all-India campaign should aim to ‘secure to the Depressed Classes the enjoyment of their civic rights such as taking water from the village wells, entry in village schools, admission to village chawdi, use of public conveyance, etc.’ This programme, he wrote, ‘will bring out a social revolution in the Hindu society, without which it will never be possible for the Depressed Classes to get equal social status’ (Ambedkar, vol. 9, p. 135). Such a social revolution would inevitably result in the breaking of heads and in criminal prosecutions by one side or the other. In this struggle, ‘the Depressed Classes will suffer badly because the police and the magistracy will always be against them. The moment the caste Hindus see the Depressed Classes trying to reach equal social status with them, they will announce complete boycott of the Depressed Classes’ (135).
    The League should have an army of workers in the rural parts of the country to encourage the Depressed Classes to fight for their rights and help them with legal proceedings arising from these battles. This programme would involve ‘disturbance and even bloodshed,’ he said. The salvation of the Depressed Classes will come only when the caste Hindu is made to think and forced to feel that he must alter his ways. ‘For that you must create a crisis by direct action against his customary code of conduct. The crisis will compel him to think and once he begins to think he will be more ready to change than he is otherwise likely to’ (136).
    Equality of opportunity: The reason for the misery and poverty of the Depressed Classes is due to the ‘absence of equality of opportunity which is in turn due to untouchability’ (137). He explained that they could not enter the economic sphere or involve themselves in trade as no Hindu would buy from them. Their situation is similar to that of the Blacks who were the last to be employed in the days of prosperity and the first to be sacked in times of adversity. In addition, untouchables were confined to the lowest paid departments irrespective of their efficiency. ‘Even in the low paid departments he cannot rise to the highest rung of the ladder’ (137). They could not earn like the caste Hindu employees because of social discrimination.
    Ambedkar said that the Anti-Untouchability League must create public opinion against this injustice and immediate set up working groups to deal with cases of inequality. ‘Much can be done by private firms and companies managed by Hindus by employing them in their offices in various grades and occupations suited to the capacities of the applicants’ (138).
    Social intercourse: The League was encouraged to take steps to annihilate the nausea felt by caste Hindus towards untouchables. Ambedkar felt that the admission of the Depressed Classes into the houses of caste Hindus either as guests or servants would help achieve this. He wondered, however, whether those who were on friendly terms with untouchables on normal occasions would come to their rescue in times of distress. ‘The Depressed Classes will never be satisfied of the bonafides of these caste Hindu sympathisers until it is proved that they are prepared to go to the same length of fighting against their own kith and kin’ (138), if necessary like the Whites of North America did against the Whites of the South for the emancipation of the Negro.
    Agency to be employed: The League was to employ a large army of workers to carry out this programme. Persons belonging to the Depressed Classes were to be appointed, who alone ‘will regard the work as love’s labour’ (139).
    But the Anti-Untouchability League did not pay any attention to these proposals; they did not even acknowledge his letter. History records the way the Congress used the ‘Harijan Seva Sangh’ to kill the movement of untouchables after the withdrawal of the three representatives from the League.
    These proposals put forth by Ambedkar applied to all non-dalit organisations which claimed to work for the uplift of untouchables. Hence, Periyar’s Dravidian movement and its activities must also be judged in this light. Let us review his activities in relation to each of these proposals.
    Campaign for civil rights of the untouchables: It is necessary to understand that Periyar’s movement was not started for the uplift of the untouchables. When non-brahmin leaders in the Congress party ventured to create an association in Madras challenging the Justice Party in 1917, Periyar supported the move by sending a telegraphic money order for Rs 1000. In turn he was selected as a vice-president of the association. Later, Rajaji persuaded him to join the Congress in 1920. Periyar stood by Gandhi who entered Indian politics in 1919 and captured the Congress. He remained a sincere Congressman until his resignation from the party in 1925.
    Gandhi involved himself with many causes on his entry into politics, but he never touched the issue of untouchability. The problem of untouchability gained attention only in the 1930s, during the First Round Table Conference. Many leaders acknowledged the validity of the claims made by untouchables, who demanded social security on par with other minorities and did not want to be clubbed with the Hindus. It was only when untouchability became an unavoidable question that Gandhi moved on the issue. His objective was achieved by the Poona Pact in 1932.
    Periyar, who headed several of Gandhi’s protests, resigned from the Congress before Gandhi took up the issue of ineducability. During the tumultuous time of the Poona Pact, he was travelling in Europe. He neither organized any protests for the civil rights of the untouchables, nor did he participate in protests organized by them. He only made public speeches. Moreover, he spoke about untouchability mostly at conferences that were organised by untouchables.
    Periyar spoke against the leaders of this community, criticising them for demanding reservation in jobs, education and politics: ‘You are roaming around asking for more wages, a ministership, jobs, education. Are these sensible demands or honourable?’ He described untouchability as the worst kind of atrocity in the world. He stated that no one had done any useful work to annihilate the practice and everybody was fooling the people by simply talking about it. Unfortunately, he too never crossed that boundary.
    The only thing that Periyar did was to offer advice to the victims of untouchability. He did not create a crisis among caste Hindus by direct action that opposed their attitude, as suggested by Ambedkar. Periyar’s followers cite his Vaikkom movement. First of all, it is important to note that the Vaikkom movement was not conducted in connection with untouchables. Let us look at what Periyar said about it:
    ‘The Vaikkom movement was sparked by a small incident. Our lawyer friend, Madhavan., B.A., B.L., went there to appear for a case. The court campus was part of the Rajah’s palace. The “pandal” made for the Rajah’s birthday celebrations covered the court campus too. Madhavan had to enter the court. The Rajah’s birthday prayers began. Since the lawyer belonged to the Eezhava community, he was prevented from entering the court …. Castes like Eezhavas, Asaris, Vaniyars, weavers were not supposed to walk on that road.’
    The leaders of the humiliated Eezhava community decided to fight against this condition. Nineteen leaders, including lawyer Madhavan, barrister Kesava Menon, P.K. Madhavan and George Joseph participated in the agitation. All of them were arrested and as president of the Tamil Nadu Congress, Periyar was asked to continue the satyagraha by the Congress of Travancore. The agitation looked more like a social event than a political one. This was the background to the agitation. Periyar was given a grand welcome; the police commissioner himself came to receive him. If we compare it with the agitation led by Ambedkar at Chawdar tank in Mahad, only then will we understand which one created a crisis among caste Hindus.
    In March 1927, a conference of untouchables was held at Mahad in which more than 2500 people participated. At the end of the conference the participants led by Ambedkar went to the Chawdar tank for water. ‘The Hindu inhabitants of the town saw the scene. They were taken by storm. They stood aghast witnessing this scene which they had never seen before. For the moment they seemed to be stunned and paralyzed. The procession in form of fours marched past and went to the Chawdar tank, and the untouchables for the first time drank the water. Soon the Hindus, realizing what had happened, went into frenzy and committed all sorts of atrocities upon the untouchables who had dared to pollute the water’ (Ambedkar, vol. 5, p. 250).
    It is apt here to remember what Dhananjay Keer had to say about it: ‘The offended orthodox Hindus sharpened the claws of the social boycott. Confirmed zealots and purblind bigots from the orthodox and reactionary camp forbade the Untouchables to take their rounds in the villages and dislodged them from their lands. They refused to sell them corn and picked quarrels with them under this or that pretext, and prosecuted and jailed quite a number of them’ (Keer, p. 78).
    Periyar describes the scene in Vaikkom: ‘Everyday 200-300 activists had food in the big pandal. Heaps of coconuts and other vegetables were stored. The cooking was done as in a marriage hall.’ This helps us understand the ‘seriousness’ of his protest for we are forced to ask what kind of relationship the Nadars in Tamil Nadu, who are the equivalent of Eezhavas, maintained with Dalits.
    Let us now look at S. Gurusamy’s piece in Kudiarasu, the official organ of Periyar’s movement, condemning Gandhi’s fast against the proposal that untouchables should have a separate electorate. The article was titled, ‘Gandhi’s Suicide’ (quoted in S.V. Rajadurai and V. Geetha, p. 186). Gurusamy writes: ‘Near Devakottai Nadars and Maravars of your great Hindu religion are beating up Adi-Dravidars, attacking women for covering their breasts and setting fire to huts. Don’t you preach to them the greatness of your Hinduism?’
    The Nadars, who were once treated as untouchable, (even as unseeable) have been involved in violence against untouchables in Tamil Nadu. But the devotees of Periyar hide this truth and instead claim that he fought for the untouchables in Vaikkom.
    Periyar never did anything for the untouchables with as much commitment as he worked to promote khadi in every nook and corner of Tamil Nadu or to cut 500 coconut trees from his land as part of the agitation against toddy drinking. When he spoke about the problems of untouchables, he equated those with problems faced by non-brahmins. Since he viewed the problem of untouchability as equivalent to the treatment of sudras by brahmins, he could say: ‘There is no difference between ourselves and you in terms of our philosophy of social life.’ This same is the problem in temples too, he said, adding that the term ‘Sudra’ is more humiliating than the word ‘Pallar’ or ‘Parayar’. By saying this, he usurped from the untouchables even the position of victims. Instead of rising against the atrocities of caste Hindus, he took steps only to pacify them.
    Around the time Gurusamy wrote in Kudiarasu about Adi-Dravidas being beaten by Nadars and Maravars, Periyar justified their actions: ‘I am agitated to hear about the atrocities done to Adi-Dravidars by other castes. But, when I think of their actions, I also understand that they are not responsible for what they have done. They are doing this because of the faith they have in their religion; because of the idea of karma and fate, that is all.’ He even accused the untouchables, who rose against such atrocities, saying: ‘You think only at that moment – as great injustices and do not reflect on why it happens, what is the reason behind this, and what we can do to purge it. You are not ready to listen to those who take steps and join with them in their action.’
    Did he ever conduct a protest opposing the caste Hindus? Did he ever provide any help to the untouchables? Or did he at least create a crisis in the attitude of caste Hindus? ‘No’ is the only answer to all these questions that anyone who has a conscience will give.
    Equality of Opportunity: Until today untouchables have not got equal opportunities in any social sphere. But Periyar kept on insisting that they already had sufficient reservation. The hostility was explicit in his campaign against the Constitution as well as on other occasions.
    Periyar described the Constitution as written by brahmins to suit their own interest and to enjoy all kinds of privileges. Commenting on the constitutional safeguards provided to the untouchables, he said: ‘Dr. Ambedkar fought for his Adi-Dravida (untouchable) community. They told him, “You can ask whatever you want. We will oblige. But don’t talk about others.” Accordingly, Ambedkar sought solutions for his community alone. So they drafted the Constitution giving due reservation to the untouchables. They have given placements to Adi-Dravidas as demanded by Ambedkar. At least he got that much. Will anyone demand like that for our community? No. While giving this much reservation for Adi-Dravidas, they say that our demand for reservation is not justifiable.’ Do we need to quote any further to determine whether Periyar felt happy or sad over the rights secured by the untouchables?
    On another occasion he says: ‘If Muslims and Scheduled Castes get reservation, leaving the rest to be occupied by the Brahmins, then who will ultimately get affected? What will happen to you, the non-brahmin Tamils, the Dravidians, other than the Muslims and Christians? What will happen to your future?’
    In the reservation policy that existed between 1927 and 1947, 14% untouchables got only 8.33% reservation. That too was not exclusively for the untouchables. It fell under the category ‘Others’, which was largely occupied by Parsis, Jains and some other caste Hindus. It was obvious that the above mentioned sections had greater opportunity of education than the untouchables. The British government also knowingly allowed that.
    The untouchables were not only deprived of their rights in jobs, but deprived of their place of survival by caste Hindus. Mullaly, who served as the sub-collector of Chingleput in 1889 was deeply disturbed by the fact that the untouchables did not even have a proper place to reside.
    After his visit to a street of the untouchables in Tirukkazhukkundram, he identified that the untouchable settlement ‘covered only 3.46 acres but had 34 houses in which 65 families lived.’ The total population living in that area was 333 individuals, an average of 10 persons per house: ‘To form a proper conception, it must be remembered that each house consists of only one room, 12 by 8 feet.’ In his diary entry for 7 July 1888, Mullaly described the situation in Palar village: ‘I find that most of the paracheri (paraiyar cheri or paraiyar living area) lands are entered in the names of the Mudaliars (vellala Mirasidars) and that they threaten to evict them (the paraiyars) if they don’t work gratis or very cheaply for them’ (Irschick, p. 171-172).
    The non-brahmins who were described as ‘equivalent to the untouchables in social life’ by Periyar, never allowed the untouchables to better their lot. They treated them inhumanely. This historical truth continues even today. Periyar led many agitations demanding equality of opportunity. But it was only for those castes described as non-brahmins and not for the untouchables. Even when he talked about reservation on 25 April 1940, he classified government employees in two categories – brahmin and non-brahmins.
    Social Intercourse: Before considering Periyar’s role in this regard, let us look at his memories of childhood. In the annual issue of Navamani 1937, he says, ‘When I was six years old, I was sent to a Tinnai school. It was located a little away from Erode town. (Now, it has become the centre of town). It was surrounded by the houses of Chettiars (a trading community). We could always hear the sound of the oil press, mat and basket makers were busy doing their jobs on the roadside. Some Muslim huts were also there. So, those living around the school either belonged to Chetty, Christian or Muslim communities.
    ‘In those days people belonging to higher castes would not take food in their houses. So when I went to school, I was also given similar instructions: “They belong to the lower castes. Don’t drink water from their houses. If you want, drink it from your teacher’s house.” Later, when I saw people in the teachers house contemptuously washing the glass that I had used, I began drinking water and sometimes also I have eaten snacks on festive occasions from the houses of Chettiars and Christians.’ ‘I have eaten from the houses of Muslims too,’ Periyar recalls with revolutionary fervour.
    He continues: ‘I was later prevented from continuing my education for being involved in these unpardonable crimes.’ His legs were tied. ‘Once both my legs and my shoulders were put in stocks for more than 15 days. I still used to go out to play with them’ (Sami. Chidambaranar, pp. 29-32). Is it possible that in a household where Periyar was put in stocks for drinking water, untouchables would be admitted? Is it because of this that Periyar never gave a responsible position to an untouchable in any of his institutions? This continues even today. No untouchable is given a respectable position in the Dravidian parties.
    Even those who argue that Periyar worked for the untouchables only cite the participation of untouchables at the lowest level. They cannot provide evidence of anyone holding a higher position. They repeatedly refer to a few of his actions as ‘revolutionary’, like Periyar’s meetings with Ambedkar, the publication of the Tamil translation of Ambedkar’s Annihilation of Caste and the intercaste marriage conducted by him between Annapoorani Ammal, an untouchable woman, and a non-brahmin.
    Neither Periyar and nor those in his movements were ever involved in an agitation against their kith and kin over the question of mixing with untouchables as proposed by Ambedkar. Untouchables serving food in Justice Party meetings, and eating in an untouchable’s house were claimed as achievements of the Dravidian movement in the 22 April 1947 issue of its journal, Viduthalai. Nowhere do they record a meeting led by an untouchable. Perhaps they felt that an untouchable was fit only for serving food.
    Agency to be Employed: Periyar’s movement did have an agency. But its aim was not the one mentioned by Ambedkar. Of course, untouchables participated in his movement. But their function was to invite Periyar and arrange meetings. Even those movements of untouchables that hail Periyar did no more than arrange meetings for him. He came to those gatherings and gave advice. This shows that Periyar and his movement learnt little from the proposals made by Ambedkar. Yet the argument that Periyar did a great deal for the uplift of untouchables is deeply rooted in Tamil Nadu.
    Gandhi had to resort to numerous gimmicks to cheat the untouchables. The only plausible reason for this is that he had to face the great power called Ambedkar. But, unlike Gandhi, Periyar cheated them easily. Periyar appropriated the sphere of protest set up by Pandit Iyothee Thass and Rettamalai Srinivasan without even acknowledging them. Had Ambedkar been born in Tamil Nadu, he would have been completely blocked out by these non-brahmin leaders.
    Ambedkar did not conduct a detailed study of Periyar’s Self Respect Movement. But the views he expressed in the proposals I cited earlier are applicable to Periyar and his movement. While describing direct action in the context of the campaign for civil rights for untouchables, Ambedkar says: ‘I know the alternative policy of adopting the line of least resistance. I am convinced that it will be ineffective in the matter of uprooting untouchability. The silent infiltration of rational ideas among the ignorant mass of caste Hindus cannot, I am sure, work for the elevation of the Depressed Classes.
    ‘First of all, the caste Hindu like all human beings follows his customary conduct in observing untouchability towards the Depressed Classes. Ordinary people do not give up their behaviour just because somebody is preaching it. But when a custom is believed to have behind it the sanction of religion, mere preaching, if it is not resented and resisted, will be allowed to waft along the wind without creating any effect on the mind… The great defect in the policy of least resistance and silent infiltration of rational ideas lies in this that they do not compel thought, for they do not produce crisis’ (Ambedkar, vol. 9, p. 136). These words are best understood as a criticism of Periyar and his movement.
    We cannot say that Periyar never created any crisis. His protests relating to the issue of non-brahmins did create such crises. In matters relating to untouchables, however, his attempts remained at the level of rhetoric.
    Ambedkar concludes his book, What Congress and Gandhi Have Done to the Untouchables thus: ‘The Untouchables will still have ground to say: “Good God! Is this man Gandhi our Saviour?”’ (vol. 9, p. 297). If the deeds of Periyar are analysed, the Dalits in Tamil Nadu would ask a similar question: Good God! Is this man Periyar our saviour?

    * All quotes of Periyar are from Ve. Anaimuthu (ed) Periyar E. Ve. Ra. Sinthanaikal, (3 volumes), Sinthanaiyalar Pathippakam, 1974.
    References:
    Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar Writings and Speeches, Volume 9, Education Department, Government of Maharashtra, 1990.
    _______ Volume 5, Education Department, Government of Maharashtra, 1989.
    S.V. Rajadurai and V. Geetha, Periyar Suyamariyathai Samadharmam, Vitiyal Pathippakam, 1996.
    Sami.Chidambaranar, Thamizhar Thalaivar: Periyar Vazhkai Varalaru, Periyar Suyamariyathai Pirachara Niruvana Veliyeedu, 1996 (10th edition).
    Dhananjay Keer, Dr. Ambedkar Life and Mission, Popular Prakashan,1997 (third edition, 9th reprint).
    Eugene F. Irschick, Dialogue and History: Constructing South India, 1795-1895. Oxford University Press, 1994.

    I have quoted the sources also.

  119. smitha said, on April 19, 2007 at 11:56 am

    Suba,

    Also please read the following :

    Early in his political life, Mr.E.V.Ramasami had derided Tirukkural and an anachronism and a tool for Aryan aggrandisement. At a later point, he embraced it as the true guide and insisted it was a common guide for all religions. When prominent Muslims spoke out and commented that a man-made work, Tirukkural can never equal God-given verses (Quran), Mr.E.V.Ramasami and his rationalist thought observed silence.

    What do U say to this?

    • MALLIKARJUNA SHARMA said, on September 12, 2011 at 7:51 pm

      Silence was convenient for Periyar because otherwise he would have to face even physical blows from the Islamic fundamentalists. Even if God is there, it is preposterous to assume that he would give verses only in Arabic and that too only to a desert people!

  120. smitha said, on April 19, 2007 at 11:57 am

    In the initial days Muslims shared platforms with Dravidian speakers, and they all tore into the Hindu orthodoxy. But Muslims became uneasy whenever Periyar fulminated against any kind of religious beliefs. Certainly they would not have been pleased with his repeated calls to women to break free of the shackles of a patriarchal society, and they came down hard on Naavalar Nedunchezhiyan in 1952 when he reportedly observed in a public meeting that Thirukkural was more relevant than Quran. Finally Nedunchezhiyan was forced to issue some kind of retraction, but even then he accused a section of Muslims with trying to destroy the Dravidian movement.

  121. smitha said, on April 19, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    Suba,

    U can very well keep the staue in fromt of a temple. After all, U periyarists have always been insensitive to the feelings of hindus & U are also aware that hindus will not protest (this time it is a rare case). Also, it is a known fact that U do not have the guts to install his statues in front of a mosque/church.

    Isn’t it ironical that U guys propose to install 100 odd statues this year of a man who denounced idol worship all his life. Therein lies his failure.

    The problem with periyar was that his anti brahmin feeling clouded the real problem. U can also see the conversation between periyar & gandhi. The gist is provided in http://www.thinnai.com.

    U will get to know the real narure of the man here. U will also (surprisingly) know how castesit he was.

    My only request is that U get to know the real facts on periyar before posting eulogies in praise of him.

    He can be given credit for only 1 thing – breaking the brahmin hegemony. Unfortunately he refused to see beyond that.

  122. Suba said, on April 19, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    >> breaking the brahmin hegemony.
    Do you think breaking the brahminist hegemony is a simple task.

    Evils like varna system and Casteism and were outputs of Brahminism. Smritis, Upanishads, were especially to ample support the caste system. This divide and rule was introduced in India by brahmins. Manu smiti was the worst brahminist rule book which gave more previleges to brahmins and didnt considered sudras and others as human.

    Brahminism is the base for all evil practices in hinduism. In fact brahmins sponsored ideologically and the upper castes and kshatriyas implemented it. Till today brahmins are feeling pride for their hatred literatures like Smritis, Upanishads, Vedas etc.,

    Do you think these hatred brahminist culture will vanish automatically? No not at all. Periyar gave shock treatment by directly attacking the root cause. As a single man he has shaken the brahmanical dogmas. Periyar used to condemn his own people (sudras and dalits) in radical manner and harshly. Lot of quotes can be given like this. But his ultimate motive is to break brahminism and uplift the socially oppressed people.

    Ambedkar and Periyar differed in many ways. This cannot be equated that Periyar is anti-dalit. Ambedkar organised dalits, exposed brahminism through researches and gave ideological base for breaking the social oppression.

    Periyar exposed brahminist literatures and puranas (burudas) and directly preached them amidst masses. He was not a soft spoken or rhythmic speaker. His words will be harsh. He used to scold his own people (sudras and dalits) for their inactiveness. His style is different. He used to carry on his propaganda along with few dalits in the brahminist towns. He had been attacked by the brahminist thugs. He never discontinued his approach. Till his death he preached among the masses, for the masses.

    Thanks for exposing Gandhi and providing details on Ambedkar’s struggle.

    Breaking a thousands year old brahminist hegemony and dogmas in a society is not a simple task. You can quote many things saying he didnot do this or that. Ofcourse he is not God, but a true human who fought against brahminical injustice and indirectly had done Godly accomplishments for the oppressed people.

  123. Suba said, on April 19, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    >> U are also aware that hindus will not protest (this time it is a rare case).

    Do you mean to say cowardly breaking Periyar’s statue by Saffron rowdies as hindu’s protest? Are you equating the religious chauvinist groups to the whole hindu society? Shame on you. These hooligans, the Gujarat Genociders who killed baby from pregnant woman can go to any extent.

    In fact each Hindu should feel ashamed for the brutal activities of saffron mafias.

    Previously they broke mosques, now breaking Periyar’s statues. Who knows, breaking and killing may be the hobbies of these criminals. They could not tolerate the rationalist questions posed by Periyar and breaking his statues.

    In many instances these thugs have dis-respected Periyar and Ambedkar’s statues with ‘chappal’ garlanding, broken them in Tamil Nadu.

  124. smitha said, on April 20, 2007 at 5:49 am

    Suba,
    U have been missing the point again & again. He saw the root cause as only brahmins. He did not (or refused to) see the caste divisions amongst the non brahmin castes. U say he was attacked by brahmin thugs in his lifetime? Can U point out a single incident on record? U cannot.

    On the other hand, his followers used to (& still do) cut the sacred thread of brahmins (they did so recently too after the idol damage) & break the idols of Hindu Gods. The irony was Periyar used to say in his meetings that critricism should never hurt a person. But he acted diametrically opposite.

    U have talked of hindutva backlash. I agree. I don’t agree too. But have U (or dare) talk of muslim fundamentalism which has killed millions? Will U talk of 5 lakh kashiri pundits who are refugees in their own country?

    All U can quote is 1 godhra incident? I can point out 1000 godhras – the bomb blasts in mubai, 7 bomb blasts in a single day in coimbatore, the day to day killings in jammu area, the list is endless. Everyone condemned the Godhra aftermath where muslims were killed. Perfectly justified. But what abt the Godhra incident where 16 hindus were killed? That was justified? Some even went to the ridiculous extent of saying that hindus killed their own brethen.

    U have not been able to answer by assetion that periyar has done little for dalits.

    I am not justifying at all the violence indulged in by saffron forces. But why is the condemation it one sided?

    Are U afraid that U too will be awareded a fatwa like salman rushdie?

    Periyar got away bcos he knew brahmins will never retailiate. If he had been born a mulsim he would been awarded a fatwa rightaway.

    When harihjans were burnt alive by non brahmins, he just kept mum. Not a word of portest. I have clearaly explained in my article how he castigated the dalits & justified the violence let loose on them by the other non brahmin castes.

    Please read my post fully before posting. Ur posts only expose Ur deep animosity towards the brahmins.

    U have not been able to counter my posts categorically still.

    Bcos for U, Periyar is a God who can do no wrong – that is what I have been saying too- therin lies his failure.

    Please continue Ur attcks on brahmins & hindus & keep pampering the minorities – After all muslime lives are precious, but those of hindus – who cares? That is secularism – Jai Hind!

  125. smitha said, on April 20, 2007 at 5:53 am

    By the way, Manu smrithi is not the Bible for the brahmins. It was a set of rules dyuring a certain period. That’s it. But it is U periyarissit who kept & sti;l keep harping ont it. Periyar based his preachings on the aryan dravidian theory which has been proved totally false.

    He said Rama was a fictitious figure but Ravana was a dravidian. Strange logic. Rama is a kshatriya, not a brahmin.

  126. smitha said, on April 20, 2007 at 6:12 am

    Read this :

    Are Brahmins the Dalit of today?

    At a time when the Congress government wants to raise the quota for Other Backward Classes to 49.5 per cent in private and public sectors, nobody talks about the plight of the upper castes. The public image of the Brahmins, for instance, is that of an affluent, pampered class. But is it so today?

    *There are 50 Sulabh Shauchalayas (public toilets) in Delhi; all of them are cleaned and looked after by Brahmins (this very welcome public institution was started by a Brahmin). A far cry from the elitist image that Brahmins have!There are five to six Brahmins manning each Shauchalaya. They came to Delhi eight to ten years back looking for a source of income, as they were a minority in most of their villages, where Dalits are in majority (60 percent to 65 per cent). In most villages in UP and Bihar, Dalits have a union which helps them secure jobs in villages.

    Did you know that you also stumble upon a number of Brahmins working as coolies at Delhi’s railway stations? One of them, Kripa Shankar Sharma, says while his daughter is doing her Bachelors in Science he is not sure if she will secure a job.

    “Dalits often have five to six kids, but they are confident of placing them easily and well,” he says. As a result, the Dalit population is increasing in villages. He adds: “Dalits are provided with housing, even their pigs have spaces; whereas there is no provision for *gaushalas* (cowsheds) for the cows of the Brahmins.”

    *The middle class deserves what it is getting *

    You also find Brahmin rickshaw pullers in Delhi. 50 per cent of PatelNagar’s rickshaw pullers are Brahmins who like their brethren have moved to the city looking for jobs for lack of employment opportunities and poor education in their villages.

    Even after toiling the whole day, Vijay Pratap and Sidharth Tiwari, two Brahmin rickshaw pullers, say they are hardly able to make ends meet. These men make about Rs 100 to Rs 150 on an average every day from which they pay a daily rent of Rs 25 for their rickshaws and Rs 500 to Rs 600 towards the rent of their rooms which is shared by 3 to 4 people or their families.

    Did you also know that most rickshaw pullers in Banaras are Brahmins?

    *Do our institutes connect with the real India?*

    This reverse discrimination is also found in bureaucracy and politics. Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu.Only 5 seats out of 600 in the combined UP and Bihar assembly are held by Brahmins — the rest are in the hands of the Yadavs.

    400,000 Brahmins of the Kashmir valley, the once respected Kashmiri Pandits,now live as refugees in their own country, sometimes in refugee camps in Jammu and Delhi in appalling conditions. But who gives a damn about them? Their vote bank is negligible.And this is not limited to the North alone. 75 per cent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins. A study of the Brahmin community in a district in Andhra Pradesh (*Brahmins of India* by J Radhakrishna, published

    by Chugh Publications) reveals that today all purohits live below the poverty line.Eighty per cent of those surveyed stated that their poverty and traditional style of dress and hair (tuft) had made them the butt of ridicule. Financial

    constraints coupled with the existing system of reservations for the’backward classes’ prevented them from providing secular education to their children.

    *Who are the real Dalits of India?*

    In fact, according to this study there has been an overall decline in the number of Brahmin students. With the average income of Brahmins being less than that of non-Brahmins, a high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level. In the 5 to 18 year age group, 44 per cent Brahmin

    students stopped education at the primary level and 36 per cent at the pre-matriculation level.

    The study also found that 55 per cent of all Brahmins lived below the poverty line — below a per capita income of Rs 650 a month. Since 45 percent of the total population of India is officially stated to be below the poverty line it follows that the percentage of destitute Brahmins is 10 percent higher than the all-India figure. There is no reason to believe that the condition of Brahmins in other parts of the country is different. In this connection it would be revealing to

    quote the per capita income of various communities as stated by the Karnataka finance minister in the state assembly: Christians Rs 1,562,Vokkaligas Rs 914, Muslims Rs 794, Scheduled castes Rs 680, Scheduled TribesRs 577 and Brahmins Rs 537.

    Appalling poverty compels many Brahmins to migrate to towns leading to spatial dispersal and consequent decline in their local influence and institutions. Brahmins initially turned to government jobs and modern occupations such as law and medicine. But preferential policies for the non-Brahmins have forced Brahmins to retreat in these spheres as well.

    *Caste shouldn’t overwrite merit*

    According to the Andhra Pradesh study, the largest percentage of Brahmins today are employed as domestic servants. The unemployment rate among them is as high as 75 per cent. Seventy percent of Brahmins are still relying on their hereditary vocation. There are hundreds of families that are surviving

    on just Rs 500 per month as priests in various temples (Department of

    Endowments statistics).

    Priests are under tremendous difficulty today, sometimes even forced to beg for alms for survival. There are innumerable instances in which Brahmin priests who spent a lifetime studying Vedas are being ridiculed and disrespected.

    At Tamil Nadu’s Ranganathaswamy Temple, a priest’s monthly salary is Rs 300(Census Department studies) and a daily allowance of one measure of rice.

    The government staff at the same temple receive Rs 2,500 plus per month. But these facts have not modified the priests’ reputation as ‘haves’ and as’exploiters.’ The destitution of Hindu priests has moved none, not even the parties known for Hindu sympathy.

    The tragedy of modern India is that the combined votes of Dalits/OBC and Muslims are enough for any government to be elected. The Congress quickly cashed in on it after Independence, but probably no other government than Sonia Gandhi’s has gone so far in shamelessly dividing Indian society forgarnering votes.

    *From the Indian Express: ‘These measures will not achieve social

    justice’ *

    The Indian government gives Rs 1,000 crores (Rs 10 billion) for salaries of imams in mosques and Rs 200 crores (Rs 2 billion) as Haj subsidies. But no such help is available to Brahmins and upper castes. As a result, not only the Brahmins, but also some of the other upper castes in the lower middle class are suffering in silence today, seeing the minorities slowly taking

    control of their majority.

    *How reservations fracture Hindu

    society*

    Anti-Brahminism originated in, and still prospers in anti-Hindu circles. It is particularly welcome among Marxists, missionaries, Muslims, separatists and Christian-backed Dalit movements of different hues. When they attack Brahmins, their target is unmistakably Hinduism.

    So the question has to be asked: are the Brahmins (and other upper castes)of yesterday becoming the Dalits of today?

    Subha – Any issue must be viewed impartially. But since U are a periyarist, U attribute all the evils of the world to brahmins. 🙂

  127. Suba said, on April 20, 2007 at 9:22 pm

    Brahmins enjoyed 100% reservation and privileges for thousands of years. On top of it they could not tolerate to see the oppressed classes to be empowered. In India, Brahmins, who are 3.5 per cent of the population, hold 78 per cent of the judicial positions and approximately 50 per cent of parliamentary seats.

    #Brahmins dominate IITs

    According to a study brahmins are dominating IITs. See the following statistics.

    Chenna IIT Professors: 400
    Among them Brahmins – 282 (70%)
    Other FCs – 40 (10%)
    BCs – 57 (14%)
    SC/ST – 3 (0.75%)
    Christians – 15 (3%)
    Jains – 3 (0;75%)
    Muslims – Nil

    #Brahmin dominance in cricket

    All selectors in Tamil Nadu Cricket Board are Brahmins, and the most recent player to emerge from the state is Murli Karthik, who is also a Brahmin. Does it reflect a caste bias in cricket?

    Sunil Gavaskar, Dravid, Sourav Ganguly, Kumble, Tendulkar, Laxman and many other stalwarts of the Indian cricket are Brahmins. Is it because of the selective selection?

    Everytime there is a small town guy displacing a big-city Brahmin from a position of prominence, the Brahmin lobby in cricket gets furious. Sunil Gavaskar could not digest the success of Kapil Dev.

  128. Suba said, on April 20, 2007 at 9:23 pm

    >> He saw the root cause as only brahmins. He did not (or refused to) see the caste divisions amongst the non brahmin castes.

    Caste & Casteism are evils of Brahminism. Periyar attacked brahminism not brahmins. Without breaking the root cause (brahminism) how the supplements can be broken?

    Whenever brahminism is questioned brahmin elites are getting agitated and stamping it as anti-brahmin. You are also repeating the same story. Brahmins think themselves of divine birth and holding the hatred brahminist literatures and culture.

    The same hatred campaign is followed by RSS (Rashtriya Slaughter Sangh) and its wings. It is trying to engulf the sudras & dalits, and using them as muscle power for their saffron ideological implementation.

    Sporadic violence by Muslim fundamentalists are reactions to the large scale violences and oppression against them by the saffron goondas. In fact muslim fundamentalistic violence is required to fan the hindutvites violence. Throughout the history of RSS it used to preach hatred campaign against non-hindus, communists and rationalists.

    They are following the Goebbel’s lie propaganda style. Their ideology and vision are Indianised version of Hitler’s Nazism. They have already experimented the genocides and violence in Gujarat, Ayodhya & Bombay.

    Vicious Saffronites want to install the hindu nation with slave hindus, who will not question the brahminic hegemony.

  129. realitycheck said, on April 21, 2007 at 4:37 am

    Suba,

    Thanks for the information. There is too much rhetoric though.

    The BJPs base is not as much brahmin as you think, it is Bania (Vaishya). In the context of TN, the natural BJP base will probably be Vaishyas like Kongu Gounders and probably kshatriya communities like Kallars. Contrary to what you think, this and other dominant communities have always controlled temples and brahmins to a large extent have been working in those temples. They are strongly god fearing communities , it would seem the dravidian movement had no impact on the religiousness of the people of TN.

    Let me give you an example.

    TN is so god fearing that even in simple things like autos and minivans, 9 out of 10 are named after this or that god (of any religion).

    Come with me to KA, or AP, or the north. Most autos, buses, either have no names, are are named after some actress.

    The atheism,rationalism and self respect angle of Periyar, which are his important principles have no takers in TN (including the politicians and all important film community). Even the “anti-brahministic” views have been transformed to anti-brahmin individual hate propaganda.

    The followers of periyar have sold him short.

  130. Suba said, on April 21, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    RSS is having dozens of wings and organisation. Its political wing BJP is dominated by brahmins and uppercaste. In fact BJP = Brahmana Jati Party.

    The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh was the brainchild of Savarkar and Golwalkar, two Maharashtrian Brahmin ideologues. When it began to aspire for political power, it was headed by Deen Dayal Upadhyay, a Bengali Brahmin. Now, several branches of the RSS such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal have come up. The parent organisation and its branches were quite consciously controlled by Brahmin leaders/intellectuals.

    Second Sarsanghchalak, M. S. Golwalkar, describes Manu, the author of Manusmriti, the Vedic book of law, as the:

    first and greatest lawgiver of the world [who] lays down in his code, directing all the peoples of the world to go to Hindusthan [sic] to learn their duties at the holy feet of ‘eldest born’ Brahmins of this land. (Golwalkar,1939, pp.55-56).

    Manusmriti is a hatred brahministic literature. See some of the lines from it

    Serving Brahmins alone is recommended as the best innate activity of a Shudra; for whatever he does other than this bears no fruit for him (123, Chapter X).

    They should give him (Shudra) the leftovers of their food, their old clothes, the spoiled parts of their grain, and their worn-out household utensils” (125, Chapter X).

    A servant (Shudra) should not amass wealth, even if he has the ability, for a servant (Shudra) who has amassed wealth annoys priests” (129, Chapter X).113

  131. smitha said, on April 23, 2007 at 8:28 am

    suba,
    U sure are comical. U talk of brahmoin bias & say that gavaskar did not like kapil dev bcos he was a NB. Wonder how U can take Ur anti brahminism to such ridiculous lengths. I can quote numerous non brahmins who are cricketers.

    I have quoted from sources, it is not rhetoric. Seems U have not read the exchanges between Gandhi & EVR. Then U will know how anti brahmin he was.

    He use to say ” If U see a snake and a brahmin at the same time, spare the snake but hurt the brahmin”

    First U said that EVR was still relevant, now U say his followers have sold him short. Confused?

    Sporadic muslim fiundamentalism? Are U blind or just plain dumb? The saffron militancy has been in vogue for a max of say, 10 por 15 years. But what abt the muslim fundamentalism. What abt the excesses in kashmiur, the bomb blasts in kashmir etc.,?

    You say that ” In fact muslim fundamentalistic violence is required to fan the hindutvites violence.” – Great thinking. What a justification for viuolence/
    So, hindu lives are less precious than muslim lives, eh?.How disgusting!

    Don’t publish rubbish. If U don ‘t know the facts, please keep quiet.

    How many brahmins are even aware of the manu smrith today? Ur brahmin hatred prevalent till today is bcos of the poison speard by EVR for more than 50 years.

    The present T.N C.M Mu.Ka says thta the standards have not come down due to reservation. Fine. Then why reservation. Why are seats reserved for SCs/STs in IITs not gettng filled up at all every year? Who is blocking them? Brahmins?

    Ambedkar himself visualised reservation for only 10 years.

    Even after 60 years, if we still harp on reservation, don’t U thoing it is flawed?

    Though the aryan dravidian theory has been proved scientifically false today, U still harp on it. EVR used it to the hilt to spread hatred.

    Seems U are caught in a time wrap.

    I have mentioned from sources & texts to prove that EVR did nothing for the emancipation of dalits. All he did was to spew hatred against brahmins. I have quoted from EVR’s own words about the Vaikkom “incidents” which has been falsely hailed as a struggle by his followers.

    If U still argue that the facts I have presented (with refernces) are plain rhetoric, then it is no use discussing further.

  132. Suba said, on April 23, 2007 at 5:24 pm

    The brahmanical hatred against Periyar has many dimensions. His ‘self respect movement’ mobilized’ Tamils against upper caste hegemony. Is it Periyar’s fault if no body is ready to take him or is it brahmanical crookedness which is working in Tamilnadu. If the Sanskritisation and Hinduisation process of Tamil Nadu is visible, it is not Periyar’s fault.

    In UNESCO’s words, Periyar is “the Prophet of the New Age, the Socrates of South East Asia, Father of Social Reform Movement, and Arch enemy of ignorance, superstitions, meaningless customs and base manners.”

    The philosophy of Periyar E.V.Ramasamy ( 17.9.1879 – 24.12.1973) was all men and women should live with dignity and have equal opportunities to develop their physical, mental and moral faculties.. To achieve this, he wanted to put an end to all kinds of unjust discriminations and to promote Social Justice and rational outlook.

  133. Suba said, on April 23, 2007 at 6:45 pm

    About 5,000 years ago, the Brahmin created a four-class social order. That order is called Chatur Varna. Excepting the Brahmin all other varnas have been insulted by this religion (in writings and practice).
    Even the Hindu king, Chhatrapati Shivaji, was refused coronation by the Brahmins.

    Shivaji’s descendant, Rajarshi Shahu Maharaj, was not allowed to chant vedic mantras. The reasonwas they were shudras and hence had no right to worship or be worshipped in vedic tradition. A very recent example is of Pandarinath Patil of Chikhali dt., Buldhana. He was insulted for chanting the mantra, Omkar. Even today, all Sankaracharyas are Brahmin by caste.

    Periyar was an indefatigable public speaker who campaigned on various platforms between 1917 and 1973, extending support to different parties at different times. On an average, he campaigned 220 days of the year. In 1973, at the age of 95, he spoke at 42 public meetings in the three months before his death.

    Dalit leader and Puthiya Thamizhagam leader Dr. K Krishnasamy pays glowing tribute to Periyar. “All his life he fought against Brahmin domination. If he were alive today, he would have fought for Dalits. Periyar supported Dalits in the 1957 caste clashes. His correct stand made Kamaraj take the right kind of action against the oppressors,” he says.

  134. smitha said, on April 24, 2007 at 5:15 am

    Suba,
    First U said that his followers have sold him short. Now U quote a political dalit leader, krishnswamy.

    I ote below the another dalit leader Thirumalavan’s statement on Periyar :

    The Periyar-led movement did open up spaces monopolised by Brahmins—temples and government jobs—to the larger intermediary castes.

    “However,” says Thol. Thirumavalavan, leader of Vidudalai Chiruthaigal (Liberation Panthers), “Periyar had no separate agenda for Dalits. The enthusiasm Periyarites have even today for sanctum entry and in challenging Shankaracharyas is not shown in leading Dalits into temples controlled by non-Brahmins. Periyar’s only success was in displacing Brahmin hegemony. On all other fronts—the battle against superstitions, for equality, atheism, rational humanism—he has failed.”

  135. smitha said, on April 24, 2007 at 5:26 am

    U have not been able to answer to any of my points with evidence and simply harp on anti brahmin statements. That periyar campaigned for 200 days in a year etc., etc., are not in any way pertinent to the topic.

    Anyway, please continue with Ur ill advised aryan-dravidian fantasy. One more thing : Ur leader K. Veeramani has said that he plans to install 120 odd statues of EVR in 2007r. Install them all in front of temples ( Everyone knows that U guys will not dare do so in front of any other religious place of worship).

    Also contnue with Ur so called ratioanalistic acts like cutting off brahmins tuft, scared thread, destroyng idols of Hindu Gods etc., After all, this is paghutharivu.

    One last thing – U have forgotten to blame brahmins for the tsunami tragedy, the fishermen killings by Srilankan Navy in the sea etc., Please do to that also. 🙂

  136. smitha said, on April 24, 2007 at 8:33 am

    Suba,
    See what EVR had to say abt brahmins :

    We will destroy the temple, burn the Brahmin extension, and make Brahmin women as public property (i.e. prostitutes.)

    Kill all Brahmins. Murder their women, burn down their homes.

    So, he was anti brahminism & not anti brahmin?

    EVR on dalits :

    In 1962, Murasoli, the mouthpiece of DMK, in its Pongal issue highlighted this. To a question asked by a reporter, “Why the price of cloth has gone up?” he replied, pullaschis (pariah women) have begun to wear blouses. The reporter asked again, “Why the price of rice has gone up?” he said, Kal kudikkira pasanga (those who drink liquor – that is how he called the Dalits) have begun to eat rice. To another query of the same reporter, “Why there is unemployment?” he said “Pallu, Paraiyanukka (Pariahs) have begun to get educated”.

    So much for dalit emancipation!

  137. Suba said, on April 24, 2007 at 6:19 pm

    Brahminism is the root cause of caste system in India. Brahmnisitic Caste system has kept dalits out the varna system. As I have already pointed out Periyar directly attacked the root cause, brahminism. Ambedkar strived for the emancipation of dalits by organising them.

    You accept that Periyar has broken the brahminist hegemony. But trying to divert the issue by saying he did little to emancipation of dalits. You could not disprove the evils of brahminism. Instead quoting various resources against Periyar.

    Could you answer the following questions.

    Wearing sacred thread itself is the first act of violence. Why should a brahmin wear sacred thread? Why should he wears these casteist identity? Why no upanayan for non-brahmin?

    Why the educated elites still preserving their brahminical identities?

    Why brahminical hatred literature is given so much importance by brahmins?

    Why brahmins still proclaim that they only have the right to enter sanctum sanctorum (karba griha)?

    Why the native languages are not allowed as the priest language in brahminist temples?

    Why they try to institutionalise dead language sanskrit?

    • MALLIKARJUNA SHARMA said, on September 12, 2011 at 8:08 pm

      Caste system in India has both its positive and negative features. Otherwise historically it would not survive for thousands of years. Caste system antedates the Aryan culture (for those who believe in Aryan invasions and Aryan origins in West India) and at any rate it is to be inferred from the social life of Indus valley civilization. The Aryan varna system later amalgamated with the pre-Aryan caste (or ethnic-tribal) system and the present caste system was born. One important virtue of caste system is the preservation of age old culture and customs of each and every ethnic tribe or community of ethnic tribal origin. Every caste has its kula purana and preserves its history and culture with pride. The hierarchy was created no doubt by the victors but the victors were not as cruel and inhuman as the Europeans who [in the relatively modern age] extirpated entire communities and committed total genocide. Instead of eliminating the vanquished tribe or community, it was relegated to a lower level in the hierarchy but at the same time allowed to preserve and promote its own culture and traditions. That’s why you find almost all the foreign intellectuals and missionaries etc. wondering at the diversity in Indian culture and the strong bonds of caste predominating among the people and the thousands of years of its culture kept in continuity. Most of the kings and emperors in Hindu age (i.e. before Muslim invasions) were non-Brahmin and even non-Kshatriya. And most if not all of the Hindu Gods or Gods in human form (like Rama or Krishna or Buddha, et al) are non-Brahmin. So if Brahmins are to be blamed as villains then the villainy of all these non-Brahmin, non-Kshatriya rulers is also to be blamed. You may say Brahmins made use of them; but equally it can be said, they commanded, threatened and made use of Brahmins. So in criticizing a system its historical origin, development and positive and negative features all are to be kept in mind. Aristotle was a great and revered intellectuals, admired so much even by Marx, but he strongly defended slavery as essential and positive institution in his times. Every man is a child of his circumstances. There are people who criticize Marx also of racist bias. If you are just inspired by hatred and vengeance, there will be an end to all study and scientific discovery or invention and end to all humanitarian values and measures.

  138. Suba said, on April 24, 2007 at 6:31 pm

    Though Periyar had been physically attacked by brahminist thugs, Periyar never instigated violence against brahmins. You are mis-quoting Periyar and writing what ever you wish.

    He strongly preached against the brahimism and its hatred literatures, but he was never against the brahmin community. Many of Periyar’s friends were brahmins and he maintained them till his life. He was only against brahminism, the evil system and not against the community.

    Whenever any rational questions is posed against brahminism, brahmins making hue and cry. Most of the times they divert it as anti-brahmins. You are also doing the same. Mami’s and Ambi’s of “akkirahaaram” are trying their level best to save their evil brahministic culture by opposing Periyar.

  139. smitha said, on April 25, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Suba,
    I have given specific instances of EVR (he is unworthy of the title Periyar) where he has openly spoken out against brahmins. I have also quoted various instances where there have been attcks on brahmins during and after his lifetime. Can U point out 1 instance of a brahmin attack on EVR? U cannot. If that was the case, he would not have lived for 95 years.

    U have given general instances not supported by evidence. If U are ignorant of history, I cannot help it.

    Coming to Ur various points,there are certain non brahmin castes like aasari, saiva vellalas etc., who wear sacred thread. I wonder how wearing it can be an act of violence. Strange logic.

    Every caste preserves its casteist identities. Thus the spate of organisations like naadaar sangam, kongu vellalar peravai, vanniyar sangam etc., U seem to be blind to those.

    What do U mean by brahminical literature? The Divya Prabhandhams recited in tamil in Vaishnavaite temples have been enumerated by 12 alwars, out of which only 2 are brahmins. Similarly I can quote many saivaite literature too.

    U say non brahmins must be made archakas too, fine. That tamil archana should be done in temples. Fine again. My Q is why not the same be applied to churches & mosques too? Secularism should not be selective.

    As regards Ur charge that native language must be not used in temples, I have answered already.

    EVR based his preachngs on the aryan dravidian theory which has been proved a myth scientifically. The caste clashes that has occurred all along has only been between non brahmins and dalits. Can U quote a single caste clash where a brahmins were involved?

    Year after year dalits are not allowed by the dominant NB upper castes to pull the temple chariot in the Cheran Mahadevi temple near Madurai.

    The 2 tumbler system is still being followed in more than 50 villages in keerapatti, Pappatti etc., at the instance of non brahmin upper castes, not brahmins.

    The persons arrested for EVR stautue desecration at Srirangam are all non brahmins. In fact, the leader of the Hindu Makkal katchi at Srirangam belongs to a doiminant non brahmin upper caste.

    2 persons were arrested for another EVR statue desecration two days back. One was a muslim and the other was a non brahmin.

    I have systematically given proofs to show how EVR based his philosophy on a mythical approach.

    U have only made accusations.

    U are a blind follower of EVR & so Ur blind hatred towards brahmins is evident here. U have also made derogatory references to the brahmin community in Ur post. That shows Ur calibre.

    EVR is a forgotten man today even by his so called followers. So, brahmins are simply not bothered abt U guys singing his praises. But don’t distort history for that.

    Even in his own words he has described the vaikkom incidents. Read it & U will know how his followers have twisted it as a struggle when EVR himself never thot or said so.

    Till Ur last post, U have been unable to argue with proof on the points I have mentioned & just spew venow against brahmins.

    EVR used to tell his followers not to blindly follow what he says but use their descretion.

    He also said this – ‘I want to be surrounded by fifty bloody fools, so that I am heard without any undue disturbance at all my public meetings’

    Sure shows he was confused, so are U. 🙂

    Anothng thing. Road accidents & deaths occur everyday in TN. U have forgotten to blame brahmins for that. 🙂

  140. Suba said, on April 25, 2007 at 7:51 pm

    # Attacks on periyar

    http://www.evrperiyar-bdu.org/biography.htm

    In January 1971, Periyar organized a Conference for the Abolition of Superstition at Salem Town. Included in the anti-God pageantry that formed a part of the conference was an image of Rama and placards inscribed with word denigrating him and other gods and the obscenities in the Puranas. Volunteers of ‘Hindu Mission’ , a far right organisation, threw chapels aimed at Periyar and other leaders.

    http://www.themronline.com/200401m1.html

    Those who opposed blindly Periyar’s principles of intellectual freedom, social equality and human rights showed their hatred throwing stones and footwear, snakes and faeces at him. (They even drove pigs and donkeys into the gatherings he addressed.) But Periyar was never perturbed by those humiliating attacks and disturbances. He confronted them with calm determination. In 1943 once Periyar was returning in a rickshaw to the Cuddalore railway station after a meeting. It was night time. Somebody threw a footwear (cheppel) at him. Periyar picked it up and asked the rickshaw man to retrace the way. When he had gone some distance, another footwear (Cheppel) was thrown at him. He collected that too. After he had arrived at the railway station he told his followers: “When I found one cheppel, I guessed that the person would throw the other one also at me because he could not use one left with him. So I gave him another chance and succeeded in getting the pair. Now they can be used by some one.”

    http://www.newstodaynet.com/24dec/rf7.htm
    “Nothing could stop him from voicing his rights and wrongs invited chappals and rotten eggs with a sullen smile behind his white beard,”

  141. Suba said, on April 25, 2007 at 7:54 pm

    Regarding caste clashes, Brahmins are cleverly deflecting the issue. In this social ladder, who is at the top? Who has created this mindset (of low and high)? Who created varnashrama dharma? Who designated them as Panchamas? In a system of graded inequality, only the fourth and fifth rung of castes will have altercations. These clashes have a region-specific equation. In the northern districts, vanniars and SCs will clash; in Coimbatore, Gounders and Arundhatiyars [chamars] will clash; in southern districts, Pallars and Thevars will clash. Saiva Pillais and Brahmins will be less in number in the population. but who created this mindset? This ingraining in the mind of superior and inferior births, this is Brahminical thinking.

    In comparison to 5,000 years of Brahminical mindset, the non-Brahmin
    movement is just 75 years old. So the takers of Periyar’s philosophy may be less today.

    >> if so much reservation benefits are given to Dalits, what will we Shudras get?

    Some Brahmins and Dalit intellectuals are re-reading Periyar and subjecting him to a critique. Periyar’s quotes needs to read in context.

    In the framework of proportional representation, the Schedules Castes are at the bottom-most level. Scheduled Castes were given 18 percent and Scheduled Tribes were given 1 percent in proportion to their share in the population. When it comes to backward
    communities, they had only 25 percent. This [quota] needed to be expanded to accommodate the sizable number of backward castes. It was in the context of the Supreme Court ceiling on reservation that Periyar talked like that. Backward communities did not have
    proportional representation then. He wanted a greater share for them under the same law.

    All Scheduled Caste IAS officers decided to give a party to Periyar in 1971-72. They said then: “You have done everything for us. If we are something today, it is you who are responsible. It is all thanks to your efforts.”

  142. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:10 am

    test

  143. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:25 am

    U have quoted isolated incidents that he was attacked with slippers. Regarding snakes, donkeys & pigs, anyone can make general statements. Just imagine if he had organised a meeting & criticised, say islam, he would have been murdered.

    On the other hand, attacks on brahims have happened still is.

  144. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:26 am

    I have quoted from sources itself :

    In 1962, Murasoli, the mouthpiece of DMK, in its Pongal issue highlighted this. To a question asked by a reporter, “Why the price of cloth has gone up?” he replied, pullaschis (pariah women) have begun to wear blouses. The reporter asked again, “Why the price of rice has gone up?” he said, Kal kudikkira pasanga (those who drink liquor – that is how he called the Dalits) have begun to eat rice. To another query of the same reporter, “Why there is unemployment?” he said “Pallu, Paraiyanukka (Pariahs) have begun to get educated”.

  145. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:27 am

    EVR’s followers have broken temple icons, cut sacred threads and tufts from brahmin priests, and have often portrayed Brahmins in the most derogatory manner in their meetings and magazines (see http://www.viduthalai.com and http://www.unmaionline.com – both in Tamil language).

  146. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:34 am

    Revolutionar sayings

    We will destroy the temple, burn the Brahmin extension, and make Brahmin women as public property (i.e. prostitutes.)

    Kill all Brahmins. Murder their women, burn down their homes.

  147. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:34 am

    Early in his political life, EVR had derided Tirukkural and an anachronism and a tool for Aryan aggrandisement. At a later point, he embraced it as the true guide and insisted it was a common guide for all religions. When prominent Muslims spoke out and commented that a man-made work, Tirukkural can never equal God-given verses (Qur’an), EVR and his rationalist thought observed silence.

  148. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:36 am

    Writing about The Board of Revenue in 1965, EVR stated as follows at a public meeting on the Marina Beach: The Board of Revenue today consists of senior civil servants who are drawing very fat salaries. Unfortunately, not one of them is a Tamilian: The first member of the Board of Revenue is T A Verghese ICS. He is a Malayalee. He is not a Tamilian. The second member of the Board of Revenue is C A Ramakrishnan ICS. He is a ‘Parapannar’. He is also not a Tamilian. The third member of the Board of Revenue is M S Shivaraman ICS. He is also a ‘Parpanar’. He is not a Tamilian. The fourth member of the Board of Revenue is E P Royappa IAS. Unfortunately he is also not a Tamilian. He is only a Christian’.

  149. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:40 am

    Mr Nageswaran, who used to cover Periyar’s speeches as a reporter for Indian Express subsequently moved to the Economic Times, and retired as its Resident Editor in Bangalore.
    Of EVR’s Brahmin connection Mr Nageswaran could claim personal knowledge. His school-teacher grandfather Kavandapadi Ananthanarayana Iyer was a close friend of EVR’s father E Venkata Naicker, And Mr Nageswaran had gone to school with a son of EVR’s brother. When his father was worried about young EVR’s waywardness it was Mr Nageswaran’s grandfather and some friends who helped set up a turmeric wholesale business for E Ramasami Naicker.

  150. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:42 am

    He prospered in business so much that EVR became socially respectable enough to be a trustee of a Pilliar Temple at Erode. Irony was that Mr Nageswaran, who had known of his temple trustee background, was to witness EVR breaking Ganesh idols, as Indian Express reporter in Madras. The media, he said, used to make fun of him, but EVR couldn’t care less so long as the newspapers helped him stay in the limelight.

  151. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:48 am

    Recalling his earlier Erode days my media friend said EVR used to address public meetings at Erode’s Karaivaikkal maidan. Power connection for loudspeakers came from an electricity line drawn from an Iyer lawyer’s place close to the maidan. At one such meeting the Dravidian Kazhagam supremo, in an anti-Brahmin rant, called on his followers to go for Brahmins with scissors and have their sacred-thread snapped. As lawyer Dhandapani Iyer heard EVR holding forth on cutting off Brahmins’ sacred thread he cut off power to the public maidan, leaving the mike system dead .

  152. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 6:49 am

    Realising his tactical mistake EVR swiftly made amends by raising his voice, loudly enough for him to be heard by the advocate Iyer, that his followers must ensure sure that nice Brahmins such as Dhandapani Iyer were spared. Power connection got restored and EVR carried on his speech, avoiding references that could hurt the man who powered his public address system.

  153. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 8:55 am

    In the reservation policy that existed between 1927 and 1947, 14% untouchables got only 8.33% reservation. That too was not exclusively for the untouchables. It fell under the category ‘Others’, which was largely occupied by Parsis, Jains and some other caste Hindus. It was obvious that the above mentioned sections had greater opportunity of education than the untouchables. The British government also knowingly allowed that.The untouchables were not only deprived of their rights in jobs, but deprived of their place of survival by caste Hindus. Mullaly, who served as the sub-collector of Chingleput in 1889 was deeply disturbed by the fact that the untouchables did not even have a proper place to reside.

  154. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 8:55 am

    After his visit to a street of the untouchables in Tirukkazhukkundram, he identified that the untouchable settlement ‘covered only 3.46 acres but had 34 houses in which 65 families lived.’ The total population living in that area was 333 individuals, an average of 10 persons per house: ‘To form a proper conception, it must be remembered that each house consists of only one room, 12 by 8 feet.’ In his diary entry for 7 July 1888, Mullaly described the situation in Palar village: ‘I find that most of the paracheri (paraiyar cheri or paraiyar living area) lands are entered in the names of the Mudaliars (vellala Mirasidars) and that they threaten to evict them (the paraiyars) if they don’t work gratis or very cheaply for them’ (Irschick, p. 171-172).

  155. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 8:56 am

    The non-brahmins who were described as ‘equivalent to the untouchables in social life’ by Periyar, never allowed the untouchables to better their lot. They treated them inhumanely. This historical truth continues even today. Periyar led many agitations demanding equality of opportunity. But it was only for those castes described as non-brahmins and not for the untouchables. Even when he talked about reservation on 25 April 1940, he classified government employees in two categories – brahmin and non-brahmins.

  156. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 10:22 am

    Brahminical mindset for 5000 years?. U have increased by 3000 years. Ok. Admitting that 3% of the population could control 98% of the population, do u think 98% were idiots for 2000 years?

    How can this be a sensible argument?

    Even assuming they were, why are U holding the current brahmins responsible for that?

    When muslimes were attacjked, U so called secularists protested & said that they cannot be held responsible for their ancestors’ sins.

    Why is not the same yardstick applied to brahmis?

  157. smitha said, on April 27, 2007 at 10:28 am

    When nattukottai chettiars were included in the BC list, they refused bcos they considered it a humiliation. They said that they would compete with the brahmnins in the OC quota.

    Why can’t the affluent BCs do that? Why did they demand OBC? Ask for concessions in education, even free eductation, study well & compete with brahmins in the OC & win on merit.

    Don’t hide behind the cloak of reservation out of fear.

  158. Suba said, on May 3, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    Philosophy of Periyar E.V.Ramasamy ( 17.9.1879 – 24.12.1973) was all men and women should live with dignity and have equal opportunities to develop their physical, mental and moral faculties.. To achive this, he wanted to put an end to all kinds of unjust discriminations and to promote Social Justice and rational outlook.

  159. Suba said, on May 3, 2007 at 6:54 pm

    In 1922, Periyar moved a resolution in the Tamil Nadu Congress Committee when it met at Tiruppur. The resolution required people of all castes to be allowed to enter and worship in all the temples, as a measure to end birth-based discrimination. Citing the authority of Vedas and other Hindu scriptures, the Brahmin members of the Committee opposed the resolution and stalled its passage. This reactionary stand of the members of upper Varna provoked Periyar to declare that he would burn Manu dharma Sastra, Ramayana etc. to show his disapproval to accept such scriptures to govern the social, religious and cultural aspects of the people.

    Periyar’s vigorous and spirited role in the Vaikom Satyagraha (1924-25) contributed in no mean measure for the triumph of that first historic social struggle in the history of modern India. This paved the way for the “untouchables” to use public roads without any inhibition and for other prospective egalitarian social measures.

    At Cheranmaadhevi near Tirunelveli in Southern Tamil Nadu, they started a National training school as an alternative to those run under the control of the British Government. That school, known as Gurukulam, was funded by the Tamil Nadu Congress Committee and by other non-Brahmin philanthropists. It was managed by V.V.S.Iyer, a Brahmin. Under his management, they showed discrimination between the Brahmin and Non-Brahmin students. Brahmin boys were treated in a better way than the others with regard to food, shelter and the cirriculum. Along with his companions Periyar stoutly opposed the discreminatory practice and put an end to it.

    It was Periyar’s firm conviction that universal enjoyment of human rights will become a reality only when the Varna-Jaathi (caste) system was eradicated. Until the social reconstruction took place, he wanted communal representation as ameasure of affirmative action to uphold social justice. So he tried, every year from 1919, to make the Tamil Nadu Congress Committee to accept the policy of reservation to different social groups and communities. But his efforts bore no fruit in this regard. Finally he left Congress in November, 1925 at the Kancheepuram Conference. He had to part company with Mahatma Gandhil because the later was not prepared to put an end to the Brahmin domination and to fight against caste system.

  160. Suba said, on May 3, 2007 at 6:55 pm

    Self – respect Movement : 1925- 39: Periyar’s philosophy is that different sections of a society should have equal rights to enjoy the fruits of the resources and the development of the country; they should all be represented, in proportion to their numerical strength, in the governance and the administration of the state. This principle had been enunicated earlier by those who stood for social justice, particularly by the South Indian Liberal Federation, popularly known as Justice Party. Periyar’s unique contribution was his insistence on rational outlook to bring about intellectual emancipation and a healthy world-view. He also stressed the need to abolish the hierarchal, graded, birth-based caste structure as a prelude to build a new egalitarian social order. In other words, he wanted to lay a sound socio-cultural base, before raising a strong structure of free polity and prosperous economy.

    It was in this context, the Self-Respect Movement, founded in 1925, carried on a vigorous and ceaseless propaganda against ridiculous and harmful superstitions, traditions, customs and habits. He wanted to dispel the ignorance of the people and make them enlightened. He exhorted them to take steps to change the institutions and values that led to meaningless divisions and unjust discrimination. He advised them to change according to the requirements of the changing times and keep pace with the modern conditions.

    Self-respecters performed marriages without Brahmin priests (prohits) and without religious rites. They insisted on equality between men and women in all walks of life. They encouraged inter-caste and widow marriages. Periyar propagated the need for birth-control even from late 1920s. He gathered support for lawful abolition of Devadasi (temple prostitute) system and the practice of child marriage. It was mainly due to his consistent and energetic propaganda, the policy of reservations in job opportunities in government administration was put into practice in the then Madras Province (which included Tamilnadu) in 1928.

  161. Suba said, on May 3, 2007 at 6:56 pm

    Periyar’s concept of Dravidians was not based on the purity of blood related to a race, but on values and ways of life. The Brahminical upper castes who followed the discriminatory socio-cultural principles, practices and traditions of Varna-Jaathi (caste system) originally enunicated in the Sanskrit scriptures like Vedas, Ithihaasas, Puraanas, Dharma Sastras etc. are Aryans. Those who subscribe to the egalitarian Tamil tradition and values of humanism are Dravidians. It may be recalled here that while addressing the conference of Backward Classes and Scheduled Castes in Kanpoor in Uttar Pradesh in December 1944, he appealed to the Non-Brahmins of North- India to give up the religious appellation of Hindu and call themselves as Dravidians.

    In those days, the board “Brahmins Hotel” was displayed, following the lead given by the Brahmins, to indicate that only vegetarian food was served there. Dravidar Kazhagam objected to the Varna dharma connotation and started an agitation symbolically in front of a hotel in Madras (Chennai) on 5th Mary 1957. Batches of volunteers agitated daily and 1010 of them courted arrest till 22nd March 1958 when it culminated in success. The provisions of the Constitution that helped to safeguard Varna-Jaathi (Caste system) was burnt by about 10,000 volunteers of Dravidar Kazhagam on 26th November 1957. In this historic agitation, about 3000 of them were sentenced to undergo various terms of rigorous imprisonment, from two months to three years.

    Periyar was in jail five times in 1920s and four times in 1930s. When he was in prison, a women’s conference in Madras (now Chennai) passed a resolution to refer to E.V.Ramasamy always as Periyaar ( the great man.).

  162. smitha said, on May 4, 2007 at 5:50 am

    suba,
    Ur adulation of EVR is commendable. But inadvertently U have agreed that in essence he was only against brahmins. Nothing more.

  163. srinias said, on May 4, 2007 at 6:07 am

    I think periyar is personally hurt or humiliated by some incidents involving the TN brahmins.This might have led him to run a movement agianst them. He succedded in putting 95% people against 5% people but he could not stop each caste or group fight against each of the other caste or group which resulted in so many caste based parties in TN..

    Ambedkar unlike periyar did not have any personal animosity towards brahmins.He fought against brahminism but not brahmins.But periyar on the other hand fought against brahmins and (succedded in some extent to throw them out of TN) and saw that the other castes absorb the brahmanism and started palying the same game against brahmins,SCs and STs and other disadvantaged sections..

  164. Suba said, on May 4, 2007 at 7:45 pm

    Always a social reformer/ revolutionalist cannot be good, nice and noble to all sort of class. I accept Even he is admired by Majority of people, He is disliked by the Brahministic thugs, Since he exposed all the evils and crimes of Brahminism

    He was disliked for revealing “spade as spade” and “evil as evil. Brahministic Elites are Ego-centric, eventhough they accept the fact that there is/was discrimination. Brahministic elites are not ready to accept their evil system. Whenever the brahiminism, the system is questioned they respond back and accuse it as anti-brahmin.

    In numerous instances these thugs have dis-respected Periyar and Ambedkar’s statues with ‘chappal’ garlanding and defacing them etc., For these casteist chauvinists, defacing Ambedkar and Periyar statues is like eating halwa.

  165. Suba said, on May 4, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    Ambedkar organised dalits, exposed brahminism through his personal researches and gave ideological base for breaking the social oppression. Ambedkar strived for the emancipation of dalits by organising them.

    Periyar exposed brahminist literatures and puranas (burudas) and directly preached them amidst masses. He was disrespected by the brahministic leaders and casteist thugs. In spite of that as a one man army, he has broken the brahministic dogmas.

  166. srinias said, on May 5, 2007 at 4:42 am

    But TN socity is still dogmatic .More number of people from TN visit temples than people from any other state in India.Only thing that periyar has succeeded in brahmins being replaced by thugs belonging to non SC non brahmin landlord communities.The SCs and poor people are subjected to humilation.

  167. srinias said, on May 5, 2007 at 4:45 am

    TN model is a failure as the intemediate castes treat the SCs and other untouchables exactly the same way as the TN brahmins treated them before.There is not much change.

  168. smitha said, on May 7, 2007 at 4:43 am

    suba,
    for Ur kind information, the thugs who vandalised his statues have been non brahmins. In the latest incident, one of them is a muslim.

    First U said EVR worked for the emancipation ofdalits. When i pointed out that he did not, U refused to accept that & started spewing venom on brahmins.t. Now U say that only ambedkar worked for dalit upliftment (I have said the same quoting from sources). Now U agree that EVR broke the brahmin hegemony only.

    U also seem to be as confused as U r mentor. 🙂

  169. smitha said, on May 7, 2007 at 9:19 am

    Suba,
    “Tthugs have dis-respected Periyar and Ambedkar’s statues with ‘chappal’ garlanding and defacing them etc., Fine.

    EVR broke idols of Lord Ganesha & slippered portraits of Lord Rama. What do U call those?

    Civilised acts?

  170. Roja said, on May 9, 2007 at 7:37 pm

    Smitha,

    Looks like you did a lot of typing or did a cut and paste from some where cliaming a lot of facts. Fine.

    One simple question to you: Do you accept that Brahmins were (and are still in many places) are oppressors?

    I grew up in Trichy very near Srirangam… So, if you try to negate the fact I mentioned earlier – you and me and many others will know it is the biggest joke ever.

    Periyar (a very apt name for him as women gave that name to him as he got them out of their misery) is not perfect as many humans are not and as many leaders are not either. If you try to find meaning to every word he said with out its original context.. then you don’t understand what he was talking about and have no right to comment on anything he said.

    I agree he was totally against Brahminism… You have to understand why that was done. Tell me that you are not so proud of being a Brahmin if you are one. Most brahmins I have met in my short life think they are of some supreme being (My foot).
    Are willing to accept what the brahmins ancestors who set up the great caste system did was the worst they could have done to the human society? If so, I applaud you whole heartedly.

    You mentioned somewhere that Periyar employed only Dalits to do works like Coffee and other things… that is a big deal. No one drinks anything that the Dalits touch at that time (still the case in many places). He had the Dalits serve food and make others eat – is that not a revolutionary act – if that is not I don’t know what is.

    One small story… one person was complaining to Periyar that one of the Dalit guy is really acting up and being rude to others because of what you are teaching and preaching… Periyar’s reply was… Try giving a servant some power and money… look what they do… they don’t know how to handle that properly yet… give them some time.. and guide them if possible.

    Another one…Periyar was invited to a Dalit farmers house for food.. Everyone was served… but the food was so hot and spicy.. people could not eat it… Periyar gave a big pat ( a thattu) on the next guys back and told him to eat fast as they have other agenda for the day… Everyone ate properly and after that the guy asked why did you do that tot me… Periyar said.. the poor guy went thru so much effort to cook us food with his poor means and the least we could do was make him happy by eating it properly…

    Periyar should be remembered for his pagutharivu, suya mariyathai, women’s freedom, equality for all man kind.. Periyar was from a very affluent family… Why did he do all this for the oppressed? For 15 minutes of fame — I don’t think so… read up on what all he endured in the process…

    Today’s upper caste and selfish politicians are so threatened by the word equality and find a way to thrash it.

    No matter who said what.. at the end of the day if think you were a fair person and treated others fairly and kindly and respectfully then you are a human being…

    Periyar and Ambedhkar and others like them did so much for the community… Whether you are a Brahmin or a N.B…. first be a human.. let us try to find peace among ourselves.

  171. smitha said, on May 10, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Roja,

    U are gettig emotional. First of all, he based his theory on the aryan dravidian theory which is totally false. The brahmins though only 3% of the population enjpyed all the plum postions simply bcos they gave improtance to eductaion. EVR should have pointed out the postive aspects & encouraged that among the NBs.

    But he chose to spew venom & hatred. if U see the history of the castes, the rulers have always been kshatriyas & it was they who fought battles. It was never the brahmins. Of course, brahmins do follow untoucahability, I don’t deny that, but do U know how much of hatred the non brahmnins have for dalits, even today.

    In fact U could point out only 1 incident where he had food in a dalits house. When his followers cut the tuft & the sacred thread of brahmins, he just watched. By spweing hatred against one particular community & holding them responsible for al the eviuls in the world will not help. Hatred only begets hatred.

    That is why his popularity waned the moment brahmin hege,mony was broken. He made it out as a B-NB fight. Now, since the NBs had nothing to fight against, no one cared abt him.

    In his own words, he has stated about the vaikkom agitation. I have quoted sources. It is not selective.

    If U see the book, Periyar & his views on islam, U will see that he urged his followers to convert to islam, but very soon gave up that demand.

    If U have read his views on wmen & chastity, U will bow Ur head with shame. he came into public life in 1919, but gavce p the suffix naicker only in 21929. Even then he did not stop his friends addressing him as naicker.

    His mariage to maniyammai at the age of 75 could not be digested even by is die hard supporters. He himself stated that he did not trust anyone & hence this marriage. He could have adopted her as his daughter or found some alternative method.

    Though he lived in affluence, he never spent a pie for the poor. he collected money for conducting self respect marriages, sigining autographs etc. These are history, not selective facts.

    I have not said the EVR did not do anything for dalits. But it was only superficial. Just attending their meetings & advisng them is of no use. When 43 dalits were burned by upper caste nbs, he did not utter w word. He refused the see the division amongst the Nbs.

    Tell me, how many dalits are employed even now in the DK run instatitions? Even today, the DK does not dare raise their voice ahgainst the 2 tumbler system in villages in keeravati, ppapatti & n45 other villages. Who practise it? The brahmins?

    The damage he has done to the society is very heavy.

  172. smitha said, on May 10, 2007 at 6:21 am

    first be a human.. let us try to find peace among ourselves.
    Very nicely said, but did EVR follow that? When Gandhi asked him whether he could not finds even a single good brahmin in the world, EVR said “no”.

    (Please read the full conversatin between Gandhi & EVR). U will know.

    & U say he is against brahmins & not brahminism?

    The descration of his staue in dec & recenlt were done by memnevbrs of the NB commnity. In fcat, oe of the persons arrested in the 2nd acs is a mulsim. But it was brahmins who were targetted attcked in both cases.
    why?

    For this, U will say, that it was instigated by brahmins from behind the scene.

    This only shows Ur brahmin hatred. U will not shed this so easiuly bcos this posion has beed fed by EVR for the last 50 years. It will not go away so easily.

    I have pointed out the good aspects (which unfortunately are very few) & the bad aspects of EVR. But U have chosen to idolise him.

    In fact U have made him God. Therin lies EVR’s failure.

  173. Roja said, on May 10, 2007 at 3:33 pm

    Smita,

    You still didn’t answer my initial quesion, I asked you…

    I am not getting emotional… I don’t think Periyar is God.(what gives you that idea). I don’t even believe in God. I don’t idiolize periyar.

    I have seen a lot of acts of Brahmins and Brahminism in my life, I don’t have to take Periyar’s word for it…

    Also.. what are you talking about.. every meeting (every house he visited) he goes to he was telling the people to get their kids educated….

    I understand brahmins are in all the top position because of their education… but they also suppressed others so they don’t get education… YOU JUST CAN”T DENY THAT… that is the history and the truth… Who came up with the Kula kalvi thittam???

    I agree the kshatriyas fought the battles… but who do you think their brain was???

    Yes… periyar was a Kanjan…. he collected money for autographs and other things… where do you think it went? to the trust… do u know how many orphans come out of that education trust…. I have witnessed… Everytime I visit India… I make it a point to visit one of them and arrange for food for them… I see that first hand…

    His marriage to Maniammai is his personal business…. she was such a follower of him…. she wasn’t forced to anything… she was 30 something when that happenend… Now we think of adoption and other things… who knows how it was back then…. Also why did he wait until 75… why not earlier??? there must have been a reason…. i am not defending him… but i really don’t care whom he married…

    You have to understand the time peroid when he did all these against brahmins… No one was allowed to enter the aghragharam… People had to bow before them.. and call them samis…. the brahmins enjoyed all this for many years….. Please don’t try to deny it… as we all know that it is a fact….. Periyar rose up to break these…. No matter what all things you quote and say… this brings all back to fairness and being human….

    If you think the Brahmin ancestors didn’t do any damage to the society… what can I say?? You can wake up people who are sleeping but not the ones who pretend to sleep…

    About Periyar not knowing one good Brahmin…. it is probably true he might not have … I can really say.. I don’t trust any brahmins I know… I don’t call them friends…. I can’t say.. I didn’t try… I really want to overcome this… but I can’t…

    You wanted me to name some places where the Periyar organization is helping the Dalits… there is a group called Power… Empowered for Woman…. there..most of the people benefitted are Dalit women… Also… they are the ones who fought and are still fighting.. for the coolie workers and farm workers to get equal payment for female and male…. May be you were not aware of these..

    We can go back and forth and argue about this… but the truth is…
    Brahmins did suppress the other castes.. (they came from the head of bhrama according to them)
    Periyar wanted equality among humans.
    Periyar fought for women’s rights and education for the poor…
    Periyar told people to think for themselves….
    I will tell you I am educated only because of Periyar…. I grew up so sheltered… but I got my education and independent thinking.. thanks to my father who is a Periyar follower…

    No matter how many Brahmins or some NB’s say anything against him.. he will live.. as any philosopher will even though they are shunned by the public while they live…..

    You might not realize one day…. but your generation might one day…

    Periyar’s dream will come true… one day… who knows.. if people like me and you can cooperate and learn to like each other.. it might happen very soon…

    Any way… Have a good one.. and I urge you to think out of the box… I will too…

  174. suresh said, on May 10, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    Tell me that you are not so proud of being a Brahmin if you are one. Most brahmins I have met in my short life think they are of some supreme being (My foot).
    Are willing to accept what the brahmins ancestors who set up the great caste system did was the worst they could have done to the human society? If so, I applaud you whole heartedly.

    So, you reserve the right to say who is an “acceptable Brahmin” and who is not? How different is this from the VHP-RSS-BJP demand that Muslims “Indianise” themselves which in effect means that the VHP-RSS-BJP have the right to say who is an acceptable Muslim and who is not?

    Secondly, why do you even care what Brahmins think of themselves? They are more-or-less out of the picture, at least so far as Tamil Nadu is concerned. I suspect that at some level you have a deep inferiority complex vis-a-vis the Brahmins – presumably that too is the fault of Brahmins. I have a suggestion: just learn to ignore the Brahmins and get a life for yourself.

    Lastly, your view of the caste system is interesting. Presumably, one fine day – what 5000 years ago? – all the evil Brahmins got together and wrote down the caste system and everyone just accepted it without demur. This was the state of affairs until the great EVR got up and said that this is stupid. And then the whole thing fell apart. Wow, how elegant and simple. I stand enlightened.

    Suresh.

  175. smitha said, on May 11, 2007 at 6:04 am

    Roja,
    Coming to Ur initial Q, U say brahmins are oppressors. That is laughable & does not deserve an answer.

    Kula kalvi thittam was brought by rajaji much later. This has nothing to do with the oppression that U are talking about. Also, rajaji’s kula kalvi thittam was largely miusunderstood. What rajaji wanted was that the fathers’ profession should be learnt by his kin too but not at the cost of education. This was to ensure that the thozhil does not fade out.

    Now we have actors’ sons becoming actors, musicians’ sons becoming musicians, doctors’ sons becoming doctors. It does not however mean that a doctor’s son should not become an engineer.

    But for EVR, since rajaji was a brahmin, anything put forth by a brahmin is poison & so he cried foul.

    Brahmins suppressed others by denying them education, that is history?
    seems U write Ur own history. 🙂

    So, kshatriyas who were rulers fought battles only bcos they were instigated by brahmins? So, they did not have brains of their own?

    I think U need to know history first before talking crap like this.

    About EVR marrying at the age of 75, that is his business, fine. But for a man talking so much abt women’s emancipation & liberation, U are supposed to set an example in real life. Perhaps for him, “practise what U preach” is only for others. Adoption was not known at that time? U can be funny as well.

    U have been able to point out just 1 single org – ‘Power’ that works for dalist. Strange out of the so many institutions run by DK. Also, it is pertinent to note that EVR did not start a single educational institution or organisation for dalits in his lifetime.

    U said ” About Periyar not knowing one good Brahmin…. it is probably true he might not have … I can really say.. I don’t trust any brahmins I know… I don’t call them friends…. I can’t say.. I didn’t try… I really want to overcome this… but I can’t…

    This is what I am also saying. This clearly proves that EVR & his followers like U are against brahmins & not against brahminism.

    EVR’s popularity waned even duing his lifetime. The moment they split from DK, he called them “kanneer thuligal” & made vulgar remarks against them in meetings, (they are all recorded in the paper kudi arasu).
    He campaigned vehemently against anna in the 1967 elections, but what happened, everyone knows. (Probably Ur history tells U that annadurai lost the elections 🙂

    U are educated bcos of EVR, & think rationally only bcos of him? U know what veeramani of DK said. “We simply follow what EVR says, he is our brain”. So, that is Ur paghutharivu.

    U said : Periyar’s dream will come true… one day… who knows.. if people like me and you can cooperate and learn to like each other.. it might happen very soon…

    Very heartening to see this post from U. But the problem is U view all brahmins as evil bcos of the influence of Ur mentor. Unless U come out of that fallacy, there can be no meeting point.

    Definitely I have & my generation has realised the irrelevance of EVR today. It is a pity that U haven’t.

  176. Roja said, on May 15, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    Suresh,

    I had to laugh at your statement about my inferiority complex… what ever..
    I don’t want to keep on explainig the same thing over and over… u very well know… if you want to keep saying stuff for arguement sake.. i can’t help it..

    Smitha,

    You can laugh all you want… but as I said.. no one can wake up a pretend sleeping person…

    I dont’ care what Veeramani said.. I believe humans have to treat each others as equal… and think for themselves…

    Like how you say.. that Rajaji was misunderstood.. so was Periyar in a lot of ways….

    I recommend all of you to watch the movie.. I haven’t yet… just to get an understanding…

    I might be wrong, you might be wrong.. what the movie makers did might be wrong… but take a look.. if you don’t want to… don’t… I am not tryign to market anything here

  177. smitha said, on May 16, 2007 at 8:37 am

    roja,
    The movie cannot be expected to give an impartial view of EVR simply bcos it has been funded by the govt. Simple.

    For argument’s sake, agreeing to Ur point that EVR said one thing but was misunderstood, I can only say ” A honest good deed is better than the grandest good intention”.

    He might have meant many things – equality for all, women’s emancipation etc., but what ultimately matters is how U put all Ur thoughts into action.

    It is there that he failed.

  178. Roja said, on May 17, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    smitha,

    He has put all his thoughts into action.. I already mentioned about the institution he has started… and the Power organization for women is helping them so much.. I have witnessed it in person.. so many women are doing handi work and marketing it and earning for their family and educating their kids….

    May be you don’t know about it… look it up… It is just… people are blind to what he has done to Soceity and Brahmins can’t take it as truth was spilled by him about what was done…

  179. smitha said, on May 18, 2007 at 9:21 am

    1 swallow does not make a summer, roja.

  180. smitha said, on May 18, 2007 at 9:32 am

    He has put all his thoughts into action? – Roja, Ur adulation of Ur God will put even theists to shame. 🙂

    Well, I suppose U have not heard of the cheran mahadevi incidents related to the temple car, papaatti & 42 other villages around madurai where the 2 tumbler systems still exists – all being practised by the NBs.

    The DK leader, K. Veeramani, has recently threatened to burn the Ramayana in a public protest against ‘Aryan Supremacy.’ His idiom is outdated. ‘Aryan’ incidentally is a word popularised by Adolf Hitler, which word has no equivalent in Sanskrit vocabulary. The closest is the word ‘arya,’ which is no racial connotation. The Tamil equivalent of ‘arya’ is ‘aiya.’ The linguistic root of the word is thus the same-meaning a cultured or noble person, and not a race.

    ”Veeramani’s earlier adulation of Ravana in his anti-Brahmin tirade had to come to an embarrassing end because he discovered that the Ravana was actually a Brahmin [‘Aryan’] scholar of the Sama Veda who had meditated in Kailash to get a boon.

    ”The Aryan-Dravidian racial divide theory, is a mischievous construct of the British Imperialists and their tutees like Romilla Thapar. Modern research and DNA analysis have now decisively debunked any such racial dichotomy in the Indian profile of ancestry. Time has come therefore to purge the theory from text books.

    The basis of EVR’s propoganda was the aryan dravidian theory.

  181. Roja said, on May 21, 2007 at 7:32 pm

    Smitha,

    I am not why u keep mentioning Periyar as my god… this shows how much you understand what I am talking about and for that matter even what periyar was trying to do…

    I really can understand your issues with some basic understanding… may be it is my fault trying to site incidents and trying to make logical statements with you.

    I understand that there are still 2 tumbler systems in many places… U really need to understand the the whole of TN was like that before Periyar came along… These 2 tumbler system has to vanish… hence the need of talking about Periyar again and again…. One day all of Periyar’s dream will come true… it might be slow.. but a sure one…

    I think you might be one of those people who follow the 2 tumbler system from what you say.. I will proudly say.. I don’t…

    Ok.. Ravana was found as an Aryan… new stories to me… so you are actually saying that Ramayana was a ture story or something like that… How funny!!!

    Shame on me…. what a ridiculous thing to say!! I will tell you what I would be ashamed of… being a Brahmin and following all the brahministic views and silently cutting other people’s thoart is what I would be ashamed of… and certainly not for following Periyar’s principles.

    True theories will certainly purge from textbooks… as long as there are people out there trying to mask the truth from public.

  182. srinias said, on May 22, 2007 at 4:32 am

    TN OBCs use Peryar cunningly to pit SCs agianst Brahmins.It is pure propaganda.Brahmins are as good as any other community in India.Some individual hate mongers like periyar exist in all communities. Hatred is a dicease which TN parties have to come out of.

  183. smitha said, on May 22, 2007 at 6:02 am

    Roja,
    U have misunderstood again. I have quoted form facts & it has been scientifically proved that the aryan dravidian theory is false.

    Why should I be ashmed? It is EVR & hos cronies who shamelessly attacked ramayana & wrote vulgar articles on it. They commented that rama was a brahmin & an aryan & ravana was a dravidian. Do U know that many DK sympathisers even named their kin as ravanadasan? Later, when it was known that as per the text, ravan was a brahmin, it was EVT who was embarassed.

    So, it is U cronies who are to be ashamed for speading false lies. Not his detractors. A lie when told a 100 times becomes a fact. That was the ploy used by EVR to fool U.

    When U say that Ramayana itself was fiction, how can rama be an aryan? This is a Q that must be put to yourselves.

    As for U saying that I follow the 2 tumbler system, I am not surprised. U have never argued based on facts, so I can understand.

    Before blindly aping EVR, have a logical understanding on what he has said & written. From Ur posts, it is clear that either U have not read history or U are simply trying to win an argument.

    Fine, U may be happy on winning the argument. But the truth is that brahmins will continue to flourish bcos they adapt themselves better to the changing times. It is U NB guys who still harp on EVR & reservation.

    I know when I say this U will at once pounce on me & say that “U brahmins are hot headed, manipulative” etc., I am least bothered by Ur rantings.

    Even after 60 years of reservation, the brahmins continue to flourish. That is bcos of the importance they have given to education & their spiritual leanings.

    Instead of seeing brahmins in coloured glalsses, try to coexist & make this world a better place to live in.

    Continuously spouting venom (as Ur mentor EVR) will take U nowhere.

  184. smitha said, on May 22, 2007 at 6:13 am

    Roja,
    U talk of brahministic policies, Pray what are they? U don;t know. That is bcos U have been fed by the EVR propoganda that everything evil in the world is done by brahmins.

    The catse clahses that have poccured so far has pnly been between upper caste NBs & dalits. There has b=not been a signgle instance of a brahmin indulging in caste clases.

    For this, U will say that brahmnins instigated the NBs to subjugate dalits.

    Even going by this argument, it shows that if NBs are so dumb as to accept whatever brahmins have to say, then U have no paghutharivu.

    Now U guys are asking for reservatoin in private sctors. U know when nattukottai chettiars were classified as backward, they refused to accept it saying it was derogatory to them & that they would compete in the open category & get selected based on merit.

    Do U know that every year the resrved quotas for SCs & STs are never filled up?

    Mu.Ka once said that the standard has not come down bcos of reservation.

    Now, I ask the same Q, then why reservation?

    Even ambedkar envisaged resrevation 0only for 15 years. But U guys have kept on extending it & will continue to do so till the world ends.

    It only shows that either U guys are dumb & are afarid to compete in the open category & win on merit.

    Either way it is U guys who ought to be ashamed.

    Seems U forgot to learn history in school. At least learn now. 🙂

  185. Roja said, on May 22, 2007 at 1:24 pm

    Well Smita…. you seem to know everyone’s history… except your own brahmin history and how cunning you people were and are… It is time you learn it…

    I understand… Education is what was lacking in the NB’s… the Brahmins were a muttu kattai for educating the NB’s…. the NB were fools following the selfish Brahmins… Periyar was trying to get them to see it… and ofcourse… who will get upset… people like you…

    coexisting with Brahmins is like living with snakes…. dont’ know at time you will get the venom… Believe me… I have been bitten by some very poisonuos snakes… but today I am doing great due to my education…. This is what I want for every one in TN…

    Let me ask you how many NB friends you have and how true you are to them….. You know what.. don’t even answer this…. Answer to yourself and if you are satisfied with your answer GREAT!! move on…

    I am not supporting any politician any were… as they are selfish.. I don’t want any reservations… I never had any either…. the people who come up in life are not dependent on any one… only their own education and hard work…. but sometime that is hard when so many obstacles are there on the way like upper class crushing….

    You talk of coexisting… but I can see so much hatred in you…… You yourself are answering to your own questions and accepting that brahmins are very manipulative…. these things are cultivated in brahmin families…

    Anyway I shouldn’t be engaging with some cheap arguments with people like you and come down from my standard…

    No matter how much you mukku and mothu… Periyar will be there always to haunt people like you… ( I can see it happening as you seem to know more about him and trying to defend yourselves.. and keeping track of everything that he said or that happened…) that itself is his victory…

  186. srinias said, on May 23, 2007 at 7:21 am

    I think there is lot of commonality between NB and B in TN.Both are hatemongers.We in neighbouring states always hesitae to move freely with tamilans(B or NB).There is a common perception here that Tamilians are a bit different and they beahve as if they are superior.

  187. smitha said, on May 23, 2007 at 10:10 am

    roja,
    U were unable to argue with facts. So U are saying that it is below Ur standard to argue.

    I do not have NB friends? U seem to kow more abt me than me. 🙂

    I did not spread any hatred. I only pointed out the hatred venoumous imaginary propoganda propounded by EVR.

    Why shud EVR haunt me? This is a thread that discusses abt him & plight of dalits. Hence my posts. If brahmins had really allowed EVR to haunt them, they would not have grown.

    Every community has its plus & minus. U have chosen to see only the minus of the brahmin community. But as I said before, U have blindly followed Ur God EVR.

    So, it is not surprising. Objectivity – that is lacking in Ur posts.

    U could not argue with facts, hence U have started attacking me personally using filthy language. But U are a EVR follower – so filthy language usage is not surprising. 🙂

  188. Roja said, on May 23, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    Smitha,

    I am not trying to attack you personally… you are the one who said…. U NB’s every other sentence..

    U are saying I am not looking at the facts… How do I know they are facts? About your aryan dravidian history? where are you finding them? site proof.. I just can’t go by your word. Hence I choose to ignore it..

    Also I am telling you multiple times… that Periyar is not my god.. I think you have some serious problems understanding…

    I really was not trying to use any filthy language… I am really sorry if you think I did… If you thought mukku and mothu are bad words… I didn’t use it like that… to say struggling was my intention..

    Also.. you yourself are saying there are negative and positive things in each society… Yes… exactly… that is what I am also saying. I want Brahmins and NB’s to accept what is negative about them…. You never accepted the negative aspects of your community…

    I am saying periyar will haunt you — look at the hatred you have against him… that is for a reason…. you find that yourself… deep in yourself you will know most of the things he said about Brahmins is true… Again…. we can go back and forth arguing…. in this case it seems like it will be never ending…

    You couldn’t even say that you were true to your NB friends…. If you really are, I applaud you. If not I sincerely want you to find peace within yourself.

    Srinivas,

    I don’t think you know what you are talking about… moving freely with Tamilians…. It is Tamilians who let every other state people live among them and let them prosper… look at how many other state people like AP, Karnataka come to TN for opportunity and Tamilians are not kicking them out… but that is not the case with other states… Look at what happened to tamilians in Karnataka…. I seriously think you don’t know what you are talking about…

    • MALLIKARJUNA SHARMA said, on September 12, 2011 at 7:42 pm

      Periyar himself is not from any backward community. He also hails from a socially forward community (naicker) and perhaps he is of Kannada origin or even connected to Telugus. Periyar’s self-respect movement is like Kamma renaissance movement in Andhra area in which Tripuraneni Ramaswami Choudary and others took active part and now Kammas are the richest and a forward community. So dalits, as it is, need not have any effusive affection for Periyar and it is trite that it is these middle order backward communities trying to come to front ranks or have already come up which fight most bitterly and vigorously with dalits i.e. scheduled castes. Any way it is not only regrettable, but quite assuming, that dalits should fight and die for installation of Periyar statue.

  189. Roja said, on May 23, 2007 at 1:26 pm

    I will be travelling the next few weeks… if I don’t get back here.. that would be the reason…

  190. smitha said, on May 24, 2007 at 6:04 am

    roja,
    Regarding the veracity of the aryan invasion theory, pls check reserach books & the net for the same.

    I never said there are no aspects in brahmin community. I only said that EVR saw & atatcked only the negative points in the b community.

    I thot U did not know only history, seems U do not understand english also. 🙂

    if u still continue to feel that EVR continues to haunt me, so be it. If It makes U happy, I accept it.

    Hope when U travel & meet many people, Ur negative thoughts will vanish & make U a better person.

    But U may be meeting brahmins. What will U do then?

    That will make for an interesting discussion altogether. 🙂

  191. Suba said, on May 25, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    A dialogue excerpts between Gandhi and Periyar.

    பார்ப்பனர்களை வெகுவாகக் கண்டித்துப் பேசிய பெரியாரிடம் காந்தி கேட்கிறார்:

    “பார்ப்பனர்களில் நல்லவர்களே இல்லையா?”

    பெரியார் சொல்கிறார்:

    “எங்களுக்கு அப்படி யாரும் தெரியவில்லை. நீங்கள் சொல்லுங்களேன்”.

    காந்தி கொஞ்சம் யோசித்து நல்ல பார்ப்பனருக்கு எடுத்துக்காட்டாக கோபாலகிருஷ்ண கோகலேவைக் குறிப்பிடுகிறார்.

    பெரியார் தனக்கே உரித்தான நகைச்சுவை உணர்வுடன் பதில் கூறுகிறார்:

    “மகாத்மாவான உங்கள் கண்ணுக்கே ஒரே ஒரு நல்ல பார்ப்பனர்தான் தெரிகின்றார் என்றால், எங்களைப் போன்ற சாமானியர்கள் கண்ணுக்கு அத்தகையவர்கள் எப்படித் தென்படுவார்கள்?”

  192. Suba said, on May 25, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    Periyar’s Speech on “Why against brahminism?”

    பார்ப்பன எதிர்ப்பு ஏன்? – பெரியார்

    பார்ப்பனத் தோழர்களே! நான் மனிதத் தன்மையில் பார்ப்பனர்களுக்கு எதிரி அல்லன். தமிழ்நாட்டிலேயே அநேக பார்ப்பனப் பிரமுகர்கள் – பெரியோர்கள் ஆகியோர்களுக்கு அன்பனாகவும், மதிப்புக்குரியவனாகவும் நண்பனாகவும் கூட இருந்து வருகிறேன். சிலர் என்னிடத்தில் அதிக நம்பிக்கையும் வைத்திருக்கிறார்கள். சமுதாயத் துறையில் பார்ப்பனர்கள் அனுஷ்டிக்கிற உயர்வு, அவர்கள் அனுபவிக்கிற அளவுக்கு மேற்பட்ட விகிதம் – ஆகியவைகளில்தான் எனக்கு வெறுப்பு இருக்கிறது. இது பார்ப்பனர்களிடம் மாத்திரமல்ல, இந்த நிலையில் உள்ள எல்லோரி டத்திலுமே நான் வெறுப்புக் கொள்கிறேன். இந்நிலை என்னிடத்தில் ஏற்பட்டிருப்பதற்குக் காரணம், ஒரு தாய் வயிற்றில் பிறந்த எல்லா மக்களுக்கும் சம அனுபவம் இருக்க வேண்டும் என்று கருதி, ஒன்றுக்கொன்று குறைவு, அதிகம் இல்லாமல் பார்த்துக் கொள்வது எப்படி ஒரு தாய்க்கு இயற்கைக் குணமாக இருக்குமோ, அது போலத்தான் எனக்கும் தோன்றுகிறது.

    மற்றும், அந்தத் தாய் தனது மக்களில் உடல் நிலையில் இளைத்துப் போய், வலிவுக்குறைவாய் இருக்கிற மகனுக்கு, மற்ற குழந்தைகளுக்கு அளிக்கிற போஷணையை விட எப்படி அதிகமான போஷணையைக் கொடுத்து மற்ற குழந்தைகளோடு சரிசமானமுள்ள குழந் தையாக ஆக்க வேண்டுமென்று பாடுபடுவாளோ, அது போலத் தான் நான் மற்ற வலுக்குறைவான பின் தங்கிய மக்களிடம் அனுதாபம் காட்டுகிறேன். இந்த அளவு தான் நான் பார்ப்பனர்களிடமும், மற்ற வகுப்புகளிடமும் காட்டிக் கொள்ளும் உணர்ச்சி ஆகும்.

    உண்மையிலேயே பார்ப்பனர் கள் தங்களை இந்நாட்டு மக்கள் என்றும், இந்நாட்டிலுள்ள மக்கள் யாவரும் ஒருதாய் வயிற்றுப் பிள்ளைகள் என்றும், தாயின் செல்வத்துக்கும், வளப்பத்துக்கும் தாங்கள் எல்லோரும் சரிபங்கு விகிதத்துக்கு உரிமை உடையவர்கள் என்றும் கருதுவார்களேயானால், இந்நாட்டிலே சமுதாயப் போராட்டமும், சமுதாய வெறுப்பும் ஏற்பட வாய்ப்பே இருக்காது.

    நான் காங்கிரஸில் இருந்த காலத்தில் – அதாவது எனது நல்ல நடுத்தர வயதான 40-வது வயது காலத்தில் – நான் ஒரு சுயநலமும் எதிர்பாராமல், எதிர்பார்க்க வேண்டிய அவசியமும் இல்லாமல் (உயர்ந்த அந்தஸ்தில்) இருக்கும் போதே, பார்ப்பன சமுதாயத்தில் இரண்டறக் கலந்து, எவ்வளவு தொண்டு செய்திருக்கிறேன் என்பது எல்லாப் பார்ப்பனர்களுக்கும் தெரியும். நான் காங்கிரஸிலிருந்து பிரிந்ததே, பார்ப்பன வெறுப்புணர்ச்சி ஏற்பட்டுத்தான் பிரிந்தேனேயொழிய, மற்றபடி எந்தவிதமான சுயநலம் காரணமாகவும் பிரியவில்லை. பிரிந்த பிறகு பார்ப்பன வெறுப்புணர்ச்சியோடு தொண்டாற்றுகிறேன் என்றால், அத்தொண்டில் எனக்குச் சுயநலம் என்ன இருக்கிறது? அல்லது எனது தொண்டில் நான் வெளிப்படையாகச் சொல்லுகின்ற கருத்தல்லாமல் வேறு உட்கருத்து என்ன இருக்கிறது?

    என்னைப் போலவே என் கருத்துகளுக்கெதிரான கொள்கைகளின் மீது உண்மையாகப் பாடுபடுகிற இராஜாஜி அவர்களுக்கு என்னைப் பற்றி நன்றாகத் தெரியும். எப்படியோ நாங்கள் இரு பிளவாகப் பிளந்து ஒன்றுக் கொன்று ஒட்டமுடியாத அளவு விலகிப் போய்க் கொண்டிருக்கிறோம்.

    எனக்கு, “நான் தோல்வியடைய மாட்டேன்; நிதானமாகவாவது வெற்றியடைவேன்” என்கிற நம் பிக்கை உண்டு. இராஜாஜியோ, எப்படியோ யோசனையின்றி ஆத்திரப்பட்டுத் தவறான வழியில் இறங்கிவிட்டார். உண்மையிலேயே வருணாசிரம சாதி முறையைப் புதுப்பித்து நிலைநிறுத்துவது சாத்தியமாகுமா? காந்தி இப்படிச் சொல்லித் தப்பித்துக் கொண்டார் என்றால், அது இன்றைக்கு 35 ஆண்டுகளுக்கு முந்திய காலம். இந்தக் காரணத்தினால் தான், அவர் கொல்லப்பட்டதற்குத் தமிழர்கள் அவ்வளவாக வருந்தவில்லை. இன்றைய இராஜாஜியின் கருத்தை, என்னை அவர் காங்கிரஸில் இழுத்த காலத்தில் சொல்லியிருப்பாரேயானால், அவருக்கு ஏற்பட்ட பெருமையும், பதவி வாய்ப்பும், செல்வ வளர்ச்சியும் ஏற்பட்டு இருக்க முடியுமா? ஆகவே அவருடைய இன்றைய நிலைமை மக்களை ஏய்த்து வளர்த்தவர் என்றுதானே பொருள்? நான் அப்படியொன்றும் ஏய்க்கவில்லையே; உளறவும் இல்லையே?

    நான் – எனக்கு ஞாபகமிருக்கிற வரையில் – என்னுடைய 10 ஆவது வயதிலிருந்தே நாத்திகன்; சாதி, சமயச் சடங்கு முதலியவற்றில் நம்பிக்கையில்லாதவன். ஒழுக்க சம்பந்தமான காரியங்களில் கூட, மற்றவர்களுக்குத் துன்பமோ, தொல்லையோ தரப்படாது என்பதைத் தவிர, மற்றபடி வேறு காரியங்களில் ஒழுக்கத்துக்கு மதிப்பு கொடுத்தவனும் அல்லன். பணம், காசு, பண்டம் முதலியவைகளில் எனக்குப் பேராசை இருக்கிறது என்றாலும், அவைகளைச் சம்பாதிப்பதில் சாமர்த்தியத்தையாவது காட்டியிருப்பேனேயொழிய, நாணயக் குறைவையோ, நம்பிக்கைத் துரோகத்தையோ காட்டியிருக்க மாட்டேன். யாரையும் ஏமாற்றலாம் என்பதில் நான் சிறிதுகூட முற்பட்டிருக்க மாட்டேன். வியாபாரத் துறையில் பொய் பேசி இருந்தாலும், பொது வாழ்வுத் துறையில் பொய்யையோ, மனதறிந்த மாற்றுக் கருத்தையோ வெளியிட்டிருக்கமாட்டேன்.

    இப்படிப்பட்ட நான், எதற்காக ஒரு சமுதாயத்தாரிடம் விரோதமோ, குரோதமோ கொள்ள வேண்டும்? நான் நமது நாட்டையும், சமுதாயத்தையும் ஆங்கில நாட்டுத் தன்மைக்கும், நாகரிகத்திற்கும் கொண்டு வர வேண்டும் என்கிற ஆசையுடையவன். இதற்கு முட்டுக் கட்டையாகப் பார்ப்பன சமுதாயம் இருக்கிறது என்று சரியாகவோ, தப்பாகவோ கருதுகிறேன்.

    தாங்கள் அப்படி இல்லையென்பதைப் பார்ப்பனர்கள் காட்டிக் கொள்ள வேண்டாமா? உண்மையிலேயே எனக்கு மாத்திரம் பார்ப்பனர்களுடைய ஆதரவு இருந்திருக்குமானால் நம் நாட்டை எவ்வளவோ முன்னுக்குக் கொண்டு வர என்னால் முடிந்திருக்கும்.

    நம் நாடு இன்று அடைந்திருக்கிற இந்தப் போலி சுதந்திரம் என்பது ஒன்றைத் தவிர – மற்ற எல்லா வளர்ச்சிக்கும் பார்ப்பன சமுதாயம் எதிரியாக இருந்திருக்கிறது. இதுமாத்திரம் அல்லாமல், நாட்டில் சமயம், தர்மம், நீதி, அரசியல் என்னும் பேரால் இருந்து வளர்ந்து வரும் எல்லாக் கேடுகளுக்கும் பார்ப்பன சமுதாயம் ஆதரவளித்தே வந்தி ருக்கிறது, வருகிறது. அவர்களின் எதிர்ப்பையும் சமாளித்துத்தான் இந்த நாடும் இந்தச் சமுதாயமும் இந்த அளவுக்கு வளர்ந்திருக்கிறது. இனி வளர்ச்சியை மெதுவாக்கலாமே தவிர, யாராலும் தடுக்க முடியாது என்கிற நிலைமையைக் காண்கிறேன்.

  193. smitha said, on May 28, 2007 at 6:01 am

    suba,
    U have given only the selective conversation of EVR & gandhi. read below the full text. .

    மகாத்மா காந்தி, பெரியார் சந்திப்பு.

    பெரியார்: இந்து மதம் ஒழிந்தாக வேண்டும்.

    காந்தியார்: ஏன்?

    பெரியார்: இந்து மதம் என்பதாக ஒரு மதம் இல்லை.

    காந்தியார்: இருக்கிறதே!

    பெரியார்: இருக்கிறதாகப் பார்ப்பனர்கள் பித்து. அதை மக்கள் மனதில் அப்படி நினைக்கும்படிச் செய்திருக்கிறார்கள்.

    காந்தியார்: எல்லா மதங்களும் அப்படித்தாமே?

    பெரியார்: அப்படி அல்ல; மற்ற மதங்களுக்குச் சரித்திர சம்பந்தமான ஆதாரங்களும், மதக்காரகள் எல்லோராலும் ஒப்புக் கொள்ளக் கூடிய கொள்கைகளும் உண்டு.

    காந்தியார்: இந்து மதத்துக்கு அப்படி ஒன்றும் இல்லையா?

    பெரியார்: என்ன இருக்கிறது? ஒருவன் பிராமணன், ஒருவன் சூத்திரன், ஒருவன் பஞ்சமன், என்கிற இந்தப் பேதப்பிரிவுத் தன்மை அல்லாமல் வேறு என்ன பொதுக் கொள்கைகள், பொது ஆதாரங்கள், இருக்கின்றன? அதுவும், பிராமணன்
    உயர்ந்தவன்; சூத்திரன், பஞ்சமன் தாழ்ந்தவன் என்கிற தன்மை நடப்புத் தவிர வேறு என்ன இருக்கிறது?

    காந்தியார்: சரி அந்தக் கொள்கையாவது இருக்கிறதே!

    பெரியார்: இருந்தால் நமக்கு இலாபமென்ன? அதனால், பார்ப்பனர் பெரிய சாதி; நீங்களும் நாங்களும் சின்ன சாதி என்பதாக அல்லவா இருந்துவருகிறது?

    காந்தியார்: நீங்கள் சொல்வது தவறு. வருண தர்மத்தில் சின்ன சாதி, பெரிய சாதி என்பது இல்லை.

    பெரியார்: இது தாங்கள் வாயால் சொல்லலாம்; காரியத்தில் நடவாது.

    காந்தியார்: காரியத்தில் நடத்தலாம்.

    பெரியார்: இந்து மதம் உள்ளவரை ஒருவராலும் நடத்த முடியாது.

    காந்தியார்: இந்து மதத்தின் மூலம்தான் செய்யலாம்.

    பெரியார்: அப்படியானால் பிராமணன், சூத்திரன் என்பதாக உள்ள மத ஆதாரங்கள் என்ன ஆவது?

    காந்தியார்: நீங்கள்தான், இந்து மதத்திற்கு ஆதாரங்கள் இல்லை என்கிறீர்களே!

    பெரியார்: நான் மதமும் இல்லை; குறிப்பிட்ட ஆதாரமும் இல்லை என்கின்றேன். மதத்தை ஒப்புக்கொண்டால், ஆதாரத்தையும் ஒப்புக்கொள்ள வேண்டாமா?

    காந்தியார்: மதத்தை ஒப்புக்கொண்டு, ஆதாரங்களை நாம் ஏற்படுத்தலாமே!

    பெரியார்: அதுதான் முடியாது. மதத்தை ஒப்புக்கொண்டால் அப்புறம் நாம் ஒன்றும் மாற்ற முடியாது.

    காந்தியார்: நீங்கள் சொல்வது மற்ற மதங்களுக்குச் சரி; இந்து மதத்துக்கு அது பொருந்தாது. மதத்தை ஒப்புக்கொண்டு, மதத் தின் பேரால் நீங்கள் என்ன வேண்டுமானாலும் செய்யலாம்; உங்களை ஆட்சேபிக்க எவனாலும் முடியாது.

    பெரியார்: அதென்ன அப்படிச் சொல்லுகிறீர்கள்? அப்படி என்றால் யார் சம்மதிப்பார்கள்? அதற்கு என்ன ஆதாரம் என்று சொல்ல வேண்டாமா?

    காந்தியார்: நீங்கள் சொல்வது எல்லாம் சரி, அதாவது, இந்து மதம் என்பதாக ஒரு மதம் இல்லை. உண்மைதான். நான் ஒப்புக் கொள்கிறேன். அதற்குக் குறிப்பிட்ட கொள்கை இல்லை என்பதையும் நான் ஒப்புக்கொள்கிறேன். ஆதலால்தான், நாம் ஒரு இந்து மதம்தான் என்பதை ஒப்புக்கொண்டு, நம் இஷ்டம் போல் அதற்குக் கொள்கை ஏற்படுத்திக் கொள்ளலாம். இன்று இந்த நாட்டில், ஏன் உலகத்திலேயே சொல்கிறேன்… மக்களை நாம் கருதுகிறபடி நல்வழிக்குக் கொண்டு வர வேண்டுமானால், இந்து மதம் ஒன்றினால்தான் முடியும்; மற்ற மதங்களால் முடியாது; ஏனென்றால், மற்ற மதங்களுக்குச் சரித்திர ஆதாரம், கொள்கை ஆதாரம் உண்டு. அவற்றில் கைவைத்தால் கையை வெட்டி விடுவார்கள். கிறிஸ்துநாதர் என்ன சொன்னாரோ, அவர் சொன்னதாகச் சொல்லும் பைபிள் என்ன சொல்கிறதோ, அந்தப்படிதான் கிறிஸ்தவர்கள் என்பவர்கள் நடந்தாக வேண்டும்.

    முகம்மது நபி அவர்கள் என்ன சொன்னாரோ, குரான் என்ன சொல்லுகிறதோ, அதன்படிதான் முஸ்லீம்கள் என்பவர்கள் நடந்தாக வேண்டும், மாறுபட்டு ஏதாவது ஒரு திருத்தம் சொன்னால், அது மத விரோதமாக ஆகிவிடும். சொல்லுகிறவர் மதத்திற்கு வெளியில் வந்துதான் சொல்ல வேண்டும். உள்ளே இருந்து சொன்னால், ஒழித்து விடுவார்கள் இதுதான் உண்மையான மதம் என்பவைகளின் தன்மை. ஆனால், இந்து மதம் என்பது இல்லாத மதம் ஆனதால், அந்த மதத்தின் பேரால் யாரும் மகான்களாக ஆகி எதையும் சொல்லலாம். அப்படியே இந்துமதத்தில் ஏற்பட்ட பல பெரியோர்கள், மகான்கள் பலவற்றைச் சொல்லி இருக்கிறார்கள். ஆதலால், நாமும் அந்த மதத்தை வைத்துக் கொண்டே அநேக சீர்திருத்தங்களை இந்தக் கால மனிதவர்க்கத் தேவைக்கு ஏற்றபடிச் செய்யலாம்.

    பெரியார்: மன்னிக்க வேண்டும். அதுதான் முடியாது.

    காந்தியார்: ஏன்?

    பெரியார்: இந்து மதத்தில் உள்ள சுயநலக்கும்பல் அதற்குச் சற்றும் இடம் கொடுக்காது.

    காந்தியார்: ஏன் அப்படிச் சொல்லுகிறீர்கள்? ‘இந்து மதத்தில் தீண்டாமை இல்லை’ என்று சொல்லுவதை இந்து மதத்தினர் ஒப்புக்கொள்ளவில்லையா?

    பெரியார்: ஒப்புக்கொள்வது என்பது ஒன்று, ஒப்புக்கொண்டப்படி நடப்பது என்பது வேறு. ஆகையால், இது காரியத்தில் நடக்காது.

    காந்தியார்: நான் காரியத்தில் செய்கிறேன். இந்த 4,5 வருஷங்களில் எவ்வளவு மாறுதல் ஏற்பட்டிருக்கிறது என்பதை நீங்கள் உணரவில்லையா?

    பெரியார்: உணருகிறேன். அடிப்படையில் மாறவில்லை, தங்களுக்கு உள்ள செல்வாக்கைக் கண்டும், தாங்கள் அவர்களுக்கு

    வேண்டியிருக்கிறது என்ற சுயநலத்துக்கு ஆகவும் ஒப்புக்கொண்டதாக நடிக்கிறார்கள். அதைத் தாங்கள் நம்புகிறீர்கள்.

    காந்தியார்: (சிரித்துக் கொண்டே) யார் அப்படி நடக்கிறார்கள்?

    பெரியார்: பார்ப்பனர்கள் யாவரும்தான்.

    காந்தியார்: எல்லாப் பார்ப்பனருமா?

    பெரியார்: ஆம், ஏன்? தங்கள்கூட இருக்கும் பார்ப்பனர்கள் எல்லோரும்தான்.

    காந்தியார்: அப்படியானால் உங்களுக்கு ஒரு பார்ப்பனிடம்கூட நம்பிக்கை இல்லையா?

    பெரியார்: நம்பிக்கை ஏற்படமாட்டேன் என்கிறது.

    காந்தியார்: இராஜகோபாலாச்சாரியாரிடம்கூட உங்களுக்கு நம்பிக்கை இல்லையா?

    பெரியார்: அவர் நல்லவர்; உண்மையானவர்; தியாகி; சுயநலமில்லாதவர். ஆனால், இவையெல்லாம் அவர்களது வகுப்பு நலனுக்கு அவர் உண்மையான தொண்டர், நல்ல தியாகி, அத்தொண்டில் சுயநலமில்லாதவர். ஆனால், என்
    வகுப்பு நலத்தை அவரிடம் ஒப்படைத்துவிடச் சுலபத்தில் எனக்கு மனம் வராது.

    காந்தியார்: இது எனக்கு ஆச்சரியமாக இருக்கிறது. அப்படியானால், உலகத்தில் ஒரு பிராமணன்கூட யோக்கியன் இல்லை என்பது உங்கள் கருத்தா?

    பெரியார்: இருக்கலாமோ என்னமோ? எனக்குத் தென்படவில்லை.

    காந்தியார்: அப்படிச் சொல்லாதீர், நான் ஒரு பிராமணனைப் பார்த்திருக்கிறேன். சந்தேகமற நான் இன்னும் அவரை நல்ல பிராமணன் என்றே கருதுகிறேன். அவர் யார் தெரியுமா? அவர்தான் கோபால கிருஷ்ணகோகலே.

    பெரியார்: அப்பாடா! தங்கள் போன்ற மகாத்மாவினுடைய கண்ணுக்கே இப்பெரிய உலகில் ஒரே ஒரு பிராமணன் தென்பட்டு இருந்தால், எங்களைப் போன்ற சாதாரண பாவிகள் கண்களுக்கு எப்படி உண்மைப் பிராமணன் தென்பட்டிருக்க முடியும்?

    காந்தியார்: (சிரித்துக்கொண்டே) உலகம் எப்போதும் ‘இண்டெலீஜன்சியா'(படித்த கூட்டத்தார்) ஆதிக்கத்தில் இருக்கும். பிராமணர்கள் படித்தவர்கள். அவர்களது எந்தக் காலத்திலும் ஆதிக்கமுள்ளவர்களாகத்தான் இருப்பார்கள். அதனால், அவர்களைக் குற்றம் சொல்வதில் பயனில்லை, மற்றவர்களும் அந்த நிலைக்கு வரவேண்டும்.

    பெரியார்: மற்ற மதங்களில் அப்படி இல்லை. இந்து மதத்தில் மாத்திரம்தான் பார்ப்பனரே யாவரும் இண்டெலிஜன்சியாவாக(படித்தவர்களாக) இருக்கிறார்கள். மற்றவர்கள் அநேகமாக 100க்கு 90க்கும் மேற்பட்ட மக்கள் படிக்காதவர்களாக, ஏமாளிகளாக இருக்கிறார்கள். ஆகவே, ஒரு சமுதாயத்தில் ஒரு சாதி த்திரமே ‘இண்டெலிஜன்சியா’வாக ஆதிக்கக்காரர்களாக இருக்கமுடியும் என்றால், அந்த மதம், அந்த ஜாதி தவிர்த்த மற்ற சாதியருக்குக் கேடானதல்லவா? ஆதலால்தான், நான் அந்த மதம் பொய்மதம் என்பதோடு, அந்த மதம் மற்றவர்களுக்குக் கேடானது; ஆதலால் ஒழிய வேண்டும் என்கிறேன்.

    காந்தியார்: உங்கள் கருத்து என்ன? இந்துமதம் ஒழிய வேண்டும்; பிராமணர்கள் ஒழிய வேண்டும் என்பதாக நான் கருதலாமா?

    பெரியார்: இந்துமதம், அதாவது இல்லாத பொய்யான இந்துமதம் ஒழிந்தால்,பிராமணன் இருக்கமாட்டான்.இந்துமதம் இருந்தால்,
    பிராமணன் இருக்கிறான். நானும் தங்களும் சூத்திரர்களாக இருக்கிறோம். எல்லாவித ஆதிக்கமும் பிராமணர்கள்
    கையில் இருக்கிறது.

    காந்தியார்: அப்படி அல்ல நான் இப்பொழுது சொல்லுவதைப் பிராமணர்கள் கேட்கவில்லையா? இந்தச் சமயத்திலேயே நாம் யாவர்களும் சேர்ந்து நீங்கள் கருதுகிற குறைபாடுகளை இந்து மதத்தின் பேராலேயே நீக்கி விடலாமல்லவா?

    பெரியார்: தாங்களால் அது முடியாது என்பது எனது தாழ்மையான கருத்து. முடிந்தாலுங்கூடத் தங்களுக்குப் பிறகு மற்றொரு மகான் தோன்றி, முன்பு இருந்து வருவதை இப்போது தாங்கள் மாற்றுவதுபோல், இன்று தாங்கள் செய்ததை அந்த இன்னொரு மகான் மாற்றிவிடுவார்.

    காந்தியார்: எப்படி மாற்றக்கூடும்?

    பெரியார்: தாங்கள்தான் இந்துமதத்தின் பேரால் எதையும் சொல்லி மக்களைநடக்கச் செய்யலாம் என்று சொன்னீர்களே! அதே போல் நாளைக்கு வரப்போகும் மகானும் இந்துமதத்தின் பேரால் எதையும் செய்யலாமல்லவா?

    காந்தியார்: இனிவரும் காலத்தில் அந்தப்படி மாற்ற எவராலும் சுலபத்தில் முடியாது.

    பெரியார்: நான் சொல்லுகிறேன், தாங்கள் மன்னிக்க வேண்டும். இந்து மதத்தை வைத்துக்கொண்டு இன்று தங்களாலேயே நிரந்தரமாக ஒன்றும் செய்துவிட முடியாது. பிராமணர்கள் அவ்வளவு தூரம் விட்டுக்கொண்டிருக்க மாட்டார்கள். தங்கள் கருத்து அவர்களுக்கு விரோதமாகச் சற்றுப் பலிதமாகிறது என்று கண்டால், உடனே எதிர்க்க ஆரம்பித்து விடுவார்கள்.

    இதுவரை ஒரு பெரியாராலும் இந்தத் துறையில் எந்தவிதமான மாறுதலும் ஏற்பட்டதில்லை என்பதோடு, அப்படிப் பட்ட ஒருவரையும் பிராமணர்கள் விட்டு வைத்துக்கொண்டிருக்க மாட்டார்கள்.

    காந்தியார்: உங்கள் மனதில் பிராமணர் மீது ஒரு தவறான எண்ணம் ஏற்பட்டுவிட்டது. அதுவே உங்களுக்கு முன்னணியில் நிற்கிறது. இது விஷயமாய் இவ்வளவு நேரம் நாமிருவரும் பேசியதில் இதுவரை நாம் எவ்வித ஒற்றுமை முடிவுக்கும் வரவில்லை என்பதாக நான் நினைக்கிறேன். ஆனாலும், இனியும் 2,3 தடவை சந்திப்போம். பிறகு நான் என்ன செய்யலாம் என்பதைப்பற்றிச் சிந்திக்கலாம் – என்று சொல்லிக்கொண்டு படுக்கையில் இருந்தபடியே ஒரு கையால் தன் தலையை உருட்டித் தடவினார்.

  194. smitha said, on May 28, 2007 at 6:02 am

    Suba,
    also read below very interesting observations made by a reviewer.

    ஈவேரா- காந்தியடிகள் உரையாடல் – எழுப்பும் சில கேள்விகளும் வெளிப்படுத்தும் சில உண்மைகளும்

    அருணகிரி

    கடந்த இதழில் வெளியான இந்த உரையாடலைப்படித்ததும் முதலில் எனக்கு எழுந்த சில கேள்விகள்: 1927-இல் நடந்ததாகச் சொல்லப்படும் இந்த உரையாடல் , காந்தி இறந்த 1948-இல்தான் முதலில் வெளியிடப்பட்டதா? எனில் , 21 ஆண்டுகளாக இதனை வெளியிடாமல் இருக்க என்ன காரணம் ? 21 ஆண்டுகளாக இந்த உரையாடல் எங்கே ஆவணப்படுத்தப்ப்ட்டு இருந்தது , காந்தியின் இறப்புக்குப் பிறகே வெளியிடப்பட்டது எனில் 21 வருடங்கள் கழித்து அந்த நேரத்தில் வெளியிடப்பட வேண்டிய அவசியம் என்ன? “வசதியாக ” காந்தி இறந்த பின் வெளியிடப்பட்ட ஒரு உரையாடல் இது என்ற குற்றச்சாட்டு எழ வாய்ப்புள்ளதால், இதன் மூல ட்ரான்ஸ்கிரிப்ட் தருதல் நலம்.

    தாஜ் எழுதியவற்றில் நகைச்சுவை மிகுந்த பகுதி, சாதியை எதிர்த்தால் கொன்று விடுவார்கள் என்று ஈவேரா சொன்னாராம், அது உண்மையானதாம். பொய் சொன்னாலும் பொருந்தச்சொல்ல வேண்டும். இந்து என்ற அடையாளம் தாங்கிக் கொண்டு ஆனால் முஸ்லீம்களுக்கே முதன்மை வாழ்வுரிமை என செயல்பட்டது காந்தியடிகளின் இறப்புக்குக் காரணம் ஆனது ( அது சரியா என்பது வேறு விஷயம்). சாதி எதிர்ப்பால் சாவு என்றால் ராஜாராம் மோகன்ராய், விவேகானந்தர், பாரதியார், நாராயண குரு, பூலே, அம்பேத்கார் என அத்தனை சீர்திருத்தவாதிகளும் பார்ப்பனர்களால் கொல்லப்பட்டிருக வேண்டும், அப்படி ஏதும் நடந்ததாக வரலாறு இல்லை. ராமசாமி நாயக்கர் கூட 60-வயதில் மகள் போன்ற ஒருத்தியை மணந்து 30 வருடங்களுக்கு மேல் இரண்டாம் மண வாழ்க்கை வாழ்ந்து 90- வயது தாண்டி இயற்கையாய்த்தான் இறந்தார். ஆனால் அவரது கு-க்ளக்ஸ் -கான் வகை பாசிச வெறுப்பியல் குண்டர்களால் இன்றும் கூட பார்ப்பனர்கள் ஆபாசமாகப் பேசப்பட்டும் , அடிக்கப்பட்டும், வெட்டப்பட்டும் , குண்டெறியப்பட்டும் அவதிப்பட்டுக்கொண்டுதான் இருக்கிறார்கள்.

    நிற்க. இந்த உரையாடலில் முக்கியமாக ஈவேராவின் சுய உருவமும், அவரது பார்ப்பன சாதிக்காழ்ப்பின் அடிமூலமும் வெளிப்படையாகியிருப்பதைச் சுட்டிக்காட்டுவது அவசியம். ‘ராஜாஜியும் பார்ப்பனர்தானே, நல்லவர் இல்லையா’ என்ற கேள்விக்கு பதில் சொல்கையில், பார்ப்பனர்களுக்கு மட்டுமே அவர் உண்மையான தொண்டர் என்பதாகவும் “ஆனால் , என் வகுப்பு நலத்தை அவரிடம் ஒப்படைத்துவிடச் சுலபத்தில் எனக்கு மனம் வராது” என்றும் மனம் திறக்கிறார் ஈ.வே .ராமசாமி நாயக்கர் . அதாவது, ஆதிக்க சாதிகளில் ஒன்றாக இருந்த தனது சாதியின் நலனை , தன் சாதியை விட மேலானதாகக்கருதப்படும் பார்ப்பன சாதிக்காரரின் கையில் கொடுக்க மனம் வராது என்கிறார் ராமசாமி நாயக்கர். ‘தன் சாதியினரை விட மேல் தட்டில் உள்ள பார்ப்பனரை கீழிறக்க வேண்டும் ‘ என்ற சாக்கினில் வடிகட்டிய சாதிப்பாசம்தான் பார்ப்பன வெறுப்பாக அவரால் இங்கே உமிழப்படுகிறது. உண்மையில் இதில் வெளியாகியிருப்பது ஈ.வே .ராமசாமி நாயக்கரின் பார்ப்பன வெறுப்பின் அடிமூலம்தானே தவிர , சாதியற்ற சமூகம் என்ற சமரச எண்ணமோ, ஹரிஜன மேம்பாடு என்ற சீர்திருத்தச் சிந்தனையோ அல்ல. படிநிலையாய் சாதியமைப்பைக்கண்டு அதில் மேலே உள்ளவனைக் கீழே தள்ளும் நோக்கம் மட்டுமே இதில் வெளியாகிறதேயன்றி, கீழ்நிலையில் உள்ளவர்களுக்கு உதவ வேண்டும் என்ற செயல் திட்டமோ அனைவரும் சம நலன் பெற வேண்டும் என்ற சமரச எண்ணமோ வெளிப்படவில்லை. பார்ப்பனர் மேல் இருந்த துவேஷம் மட்டுமே பார்ப்பனரல்லாத அனைவர்மீதும் பரிவை உருவாக்கி விடாதுதான். இதனால்தான் ஆதிக்க சாதிகளால் ஹரிஜனங்கள் கொளுத்தப்பட்டபோது கூட அதனை எதிர்த்துப் பேசாமல் ஈ .வே.ரா .வால் இடிபோன்ற மவுனம் காக்க முடிந்தது. எது தனக்கு அதிகம் பிடித்தமானது என்பதை விட, யார் மேல் தனக்கு துவேஷம் அதிகம் என்பதை வைத்தே தனது கொள்கைகளை வகுத்துக்கொண்டவர் ராமசாமி நாயக்கர் . “இந்தி மேலே இருந்த துவேஷம் தமிழ் மேலே அன்பா மாறித்து. அதுதான் உண்மை” * என்று சொல்கையில் தனது இந்த வெறுப்பியல் மனப்பான்மையைத்தான் ஈவேரா வெளிச்சம் போடுகிறார். யாருக்கு உதவ வேண்டும் என்பதை அடிப்படையாய்க்கொண்டு சமூக அரசியல் நடத்தியவர் காந்தியடிகள், தாழ்த்தப்பட்ட சாதியை மேம்படுத்த அவர்களினூடே அறிவியக்கம் நடத்தி செயல்பட்டவர் நாராயண குரு , ஆன்மீகத்தின் துணையுடன் சாதிக்கொடுமைகளுக்கெதிராக சண்டமாருதமாய்க் குரலெழுப்பிய்வர் துறவி விவேகானந்தர். யாரை அடிக்க வேண்டும் என்பதை மட்டுமே அடிப்படையாக்கி அரசியல் கூட்டம் வளர்த்த தமிழக பாசிஸ்டு ஈ. வே.ராமசாமி.

    மட்டுமன்றி, இந்த உரையாடலில் ஆபிரஹாமிய மதங்கள் குறித்த காந்தியடிகளின் தெளிவான சிந்தனையும் பதிவாகியிருக்கிறது: “கிறிஸ்துநாதர் என்ன சொன்னாரோ , அவர் சொன்னதாகச் சொல்லும் பைபிள் என்ன சொல்கிறதோ , அந்தப்படிதான் கிறிஸ்தவர்கள் என்பவர்கள் நடந்தாக வேண்டும். முகம்மது நபி அவர்கள் என்ன சொன்னாரோ , குரான் என்ன சொல்லுகிறதோ, அதன்படிதான் முஸ்லீம்கள் என்பவர்கள் நடந்தாக வேண்டும் , மாறுபட்டு ஏதாவது ஒரு திருத்தம் சொன்னால், அது மத விரோதமாக ஆகிவிடும். சொல்லுகிறவர் மதத்திற்கு வெளியில் வந்துதான் சொல்ல வேண்டும். உள்ளே இருந்து சொன்னால் , ஒழித்து விடுவார்கள் இதுதான் உண்மையான மதம் என்பவைகளின் தன்மை. ஆனால் , இந்து மதம் என்பது இல்லாத மதம் ஆனதால் , அந்த மதத்தின் பேரால் யாரும் மகான்களாக ஆகி எதையும் சொல்லலாம் . அப்படியே இந்துமதத்தில் ஏற்பட்ட பல பெரியோர்கள், மகான்கள் பலவற்றைச் சொல்லி இருக்கிறார்கள். ஆதலால் , நாமும் அந்த மதத்தை வைத்துக் கொண்டே அநேக சீர்திருத்தங்களை இந்தக் கால மனிதவர்க்கத் தேவைக்கு ஏற்றபடிச் செய்யலாம்”.

    இப்படிப்பட்ட சீர்திருத்தங்களைத்தான் இராஜாராம் மோகன்ராயும், நாராயண குருவும், விவேகானந்தரும், பாரதியாரும், காந்தியடிகளும், அம்பேத்காரும் தத்தம் களங்களில் செய்தனர். மாதா அமிர்தானந்த மாயியும், ஸ்ரீ ஸ்ரீ ரவிஷங்கரும் இன்றும் செய்கின்றனர். இந்து மதத்துக்கு உள்ளே இருந்தே சாதி எதிர்ப்பு இயக்கங்கள் வெற்றிகரமாக செயல்பட்டுக்கொண்டிருக்கின்றன. அதே சமயம், இன்றும் கூட குரானுக்கு எதிராக உள்ளிருந்து எழும் குரல்கள் பட்வாக்களாலும் பயங்கரவாதங்களாலும் அடித்து ஒடுக்கப்படுவதைக் காண்கிறோம் . 147 வருடங்களுக்கு மேலாகியும் இனமும் கிறித்துவ உலகம் பரிணாமக் கோட்பாட்டை ஏற்றுக்கொள்ளவில்லை . அறிவியல் வெற்றிகளின் சிகரத்தில் உள்ள அமெரிக்காவிலோ பைபிளுக்கு எதிரானது எனச்சொல்லி பரிணாமப் பாடமே தடை செய்யப்படக்கூடிய நிலைகூட இன்னும் கூட சில மாநிலங்களில் உள்ளது.

    தளைகள் அனைத்திலிருந்தும் விட்டு விடுதலையாகி நிற்க மனித மனங்களுக்கு அறைகூவல் விடுப்பது இந்து ஞான மரபு. இன்னமும் கூட இறுகிய கோட்பாடுகளாலும் பயங்களாலும் சிறைபட்டுக் கிடப்பது ஆபிரஹாமிய மதங்களின் இயல்பு. இந்து தர்மத்தின் இந்த இளகிய தன்மைதான் ஈவேராவுக்கு இந்து தெய்வங்களை அவமதிக்கவும், பிள்ளையார் சிலைகளை உடைக்கவும், இராமருக்கு செருப்பு மாலை போடவும் வசதியாகிப்போனது; இல்லாவிட்டால் , சல்மான் ருஷ்டியைப்போலவோ தஸ்லிமா நஸரீனைப்போலவோ பாத்வா விதிக்கப்பட்டு உயிருக்குப்பயந்து ஒளிந்து வாழ வேண்டி வந்திருக்கும். 60-வயதில் இளம்பெண்ணை மணந்து , 90-வயது தாண்டி நிம்மதியாய் வாழ்ந்திருக்க முடியாது.

  195. smitha said, on May 28, 2007 at 6:05 am

    suba,
    EVR gave a very good speech on why he is against brahmins. Pity is he never put it into practice.

    Talkers are no good doers, eh? 🙂

    The conversation with gandhi clearly shows how casteist he was & also how much of hatred he had against brahmins.

  196. smitha said, on May 28, 2007 at 12:54 pm

    correction.

    EVR gave a very good speech on why he is against brahminism.

  197. Don'tKnowTamil said, on May 29, 2007 at 1:50 pm

    Would RC, or the original posters, please be able to post English translations of the last few Tamil posts? This topic clearly deserves it, and is of interest to all who are concerned about this issue, and not just one class/subset. Thanks.

  198. Roja said, on May 29, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    smitha,

    My travel was very nice thank you…. I did meet a quite a lot of people… fortunately.. none of them were a b. 🙂

    Let’s say that the whole Aryan Dravidian theory is false or true… no matter what… a b is a b and will act like one…

    It might be that I don’t understand English.. but you have some issues with basic logic itself…

    Coming to your own point… you said… “I never said there are no aspects in brahmin community. I only said that EVR saw & atatcked only the negative points in the b community.”

    I am also saying the same thing… and he not only attacked the negative points in the b community but also the nb community…. to bring people to light…. I am so excited that you helped me explain it in your own words 🙂

    While I was trying to find the post.. I saw a few things I missed earlier… about Anna winning the election and me trying to deny it or some nonsense like that…. May be you didn’t know the fact that Anna always called Periyar his mentor… He knew the greatness in Periyar.

    I watched the movie Periyar… it is one of the better movies in Tamil… It seems to be bits and pieces of history and lacks some continuity…. they never used the word Parpan in the whole movie to my surprise… as we all know Periyar used it often… Many scenes as far as I know are true…. Annoying parts were when they showed that Rajaji more times than needed… and two unwanted dances… I urge all of you people to watch it…. It was made by a Brahmin I heard…. I think Satyaraj did a wonderful job as an actor… Some understanding might happen to many of you… even if you all think it is a biased movie…

    I am resuming my travel again and actually don’t mind having a brahmin like smitha next to me on my flight trips.. so I can spend the hours arguing…. believe me… no matter how much I say against b’s I will always be courteous and will treat them humanly… as I would any other humans

    Anyway… the only message I wanted to convey coming to this forum was that humans have to respect each other and be treated fairly….

    Also, About those readings you cited….. any one could have twisted them anyway they wanted… And also many people know that Gandhi was a very good politician…. Periyar was frank and spoke his mind… and thus so many issues tagged along with him…

    We had a family tragedy today… cutting my travel short and I came to this forum for a distraction…. so, it will be a long while before I get back here… keep attacking…. I will get back once I settle in my proper schedule…

  199. smitha said, on May 30, 2007 at 5:47 am

    Suba,

    My deep regrets for Ur family tragedy. Coming back to the argument, EVR did not attack the negative points of the NB community. That is the main issue. If he had, the plight of dalits would have been different.

    Anna’s mentor was EVR. But do U know that after he split in 1949 & formed in DMK, he did not meet EVR for the next 18 yrs i.e until after the 1967 election results? This has alos been reiterated by mu.ka in his interview recently to a tamil mag.

    Also, it is chronicled that after anna split with EVR, EVR teased & taunted him in meetings calling them “kanneer thuligal” . Anna however did not retaliate.

    The movie on Periyar has been praised by U understandably. It shows only the positive points of EVR. Bcos it was funded by the govt. For Ur information, the director Gnana rajasekaran is not a brahmin.

    Too bad they have shown rajaji too many times. I thot they would have portrayed him as a villain. Atleast they had the decency not to distort the truth in his case.

    I have given the full text of the conversation between gandhi & EVR which has in fact been taken from one of the DK mags. The conversation clearly shows that EVR was frank, no doubt, but also 1 more thing that U followers refuse to see – casteist.

    U do not understand english, fine, now I find that tamil too is a problem with U. My sympathies.

    Gandhi was no doubt a politician. It is remarkable that while one one hand U say review must be objective, Ur views on EVR has always been one sided. Why?

    Whenever anything is posted +ve about him, it is a fact, but anything otherwise is distorted, twisted. Strange.

    Is that Ur paghutharivu?
    Oh! I get it – it is EVR paghutharivu. It is different. 🙂

    I have attacked EVR based on evidences drawn from history which has been detailed in books, no hearsay.

    I have not used filthy words like U did to put forth my points. Of course,. it is understandable since decency is the last thing one can expect from EVR or his supporters.

    U say U met a lot of people , fortunately no brahmin & the next moment U say U will be courteos & treat them humanly. 🙂

    Steady, suba. U seem as confused as EVR was.

    Get back & start attacking. 🙂

  200. smitha said, on May 30, 2007 at 5:51 am

    By the way, suba, do U know the real meaning of parpaan?

    It means a person with foresight.

    But as usual, EVR twisted it as is his wont & brainwashed everyone into believing that it was a derogatory word.

    The reason I told U is that U do not udnerstand tamil also apart from english. 🙂

  201. Ramgo said, on July 12, 2007 at 10:33 pm

    Recently I read his writings and understand him much better than before.
    I believe that Brahmins educated but foolish, cunning and laze people. They made the India so miserable and poor country. They destroyed Dravidian cultures and make them slaves by their stupid stories and poems. Still Tamils slave people under them.

  202. srinias said, on August 7, 2007 at 10:06 am

    According Mr Ramgo, four percent people in TN made the life of 96% miserable.How was it possible?This did not happen in AP and karnataka.How did it happen differently in neighbouring states?
    Does the TN people love stupid stories,poems and movies more than truth?

    Even now they are being made fools by likes of jayalalita and Karunanidhi.Story continues even after the so called evil brahmins ran away from the the state in big numbers.I think the TN people have to introspect and then move forward.They should kick the likes of jaya and karuna kind of people.

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  204. Manu said, on September 17, 2007 at 6:29 pm

    It is so ironic that Brahmins of Tamil Nadu, whom Vivekananda adored so much, are facing this brutality.
    I wonder how people of Tamil Nadu are tollerating Karunanidhi and alikes. If not for peaceful Hindus, these devils would have been hung in public.

  205. Ganapathy said, on November 17, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    In the vedantha philosophy, worship at a temple is considered to be an inferior path to god. The highest path being self realization. This is the path advocated for a “Gnani”. Temples are meant to dispense knowledge and devotion to the masses. When the very same masses (97% of them) have no problem with the periyar statue, why are the brahmins who are suppossed to be gnanis raising a din about it?

  206. srinias said, on December 5, 2007 at 1:16 pm

    Ganapathy,
    The non Brahmin Hindus of other states are believers in Hinduism and they object to it.These temples in TN belong to the Hindus in other states too.If politicians and their followers in TN doesnt believe ,it is their problem.They can aswell put periyar statue in their houses.

  207. ambal said, on January 9, 2008 at 10:54 am

    i won more information, i am from sri lanka

  208. headless horseman said, on August 19, 2008 at 6:16 am

    Jai Bhagavan,

    O Hindus,

    It is not something to be scared off, or to be shocked! This behaviour is present in all ages and at all times in the samsaar chakr.

    WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

    Yes, we should be ready to die, ready to have our head broken, our chest pierced with knives, have acid thrown on our face and burning fire poked into our eyes.

    Yes, the moment a Hindu is ready for these horrors, he/she has become a “Veer”. He/She is no longer a coward. Once he/she is ready to lay down his life for the respect and honour of the deity, the Hindu is divine. That moment on, his/her career, health, finance, etc. etc. is no longer his/her worry.

    It is also called Samarpan (surrender). The proof od this is given in the Vedic dictum “Dharamah Rakshati Rakshitah” Dharm protects those that protect the Dharm.

    Come on Veer brothers and sisters, let us lay our lives for Bhagavan, and thus live forever in Bhagavan.

  209. Ganapathy said, on August 21, 2008 at 12:06 am

    srinias,

    Let the ppl of other states first take care of their own temples, protect the ganges from pollution and clean and regulate the holy city of Kasi. They can think oabt the temples of TN after that..

    Ganapathy.

  210. […] However, we also want to point out the the Congress party’s asymmetry while dealing with attack on temples in Tamilnadu is being noticed by all. No media covered the event and this blog received thousands of visitors when the incident […]

  211. Swabhimaan said, on November 21, 2008 at 12:03 pm

    Hindus (including Jains and Budhists) who are tired of pseudo-secular governments and media are invited to join Swabhimaan – a movement launched to unite Hindus of India and protect their interests. For more details please contact Swabhimaan2008@gmail.com

    STRENGTHEN US WITH YOUR PARTICIPATION

  212. Sharma said, on May 18, 2009 at 11:46 pm

    I am glad that the tamil Dravidian pride has taken a beating in Sri Lanka. Only Malay & Sinhalese know how to make these Dravidian beg for mercy.

  213. Krish said, on May 29, 2009 at 2:09 pm

    Hi Chaps,
    I learnt a lot about this dude called EVR in the insightful arguments between Smitha and Roja.Both of them tried to substantiate their point using published facts. The last mail to this blog was in the May of 2007. I wonder if their debate was conclusive. It would be interesting to know…

    Cheers

  214. Sanjay Vachani said, on September 16, 2009 at 1:52 am

    ) In a civilised country, permission is required to erect statues in public spaces. Permission is granted/not granted as per law. On what basis did “Activists” put up Periyar’s statue in front of the Srirangam temple? If they had done this illegally, the statue should have been brought down by the state. If done legally, then what was the provocation for damaging the statue? If Periyar’s acolytes couldn’t view the temple even as a historical (not religious) site, then why couldn’t the fans of the temple view the statue as that of yet another Tamil leader? Shows how unthinkingly polarised, at every level, the country really is.
    ii) Periyar’s statue was damaged by some miscreants. Again, in a civilised country the law would’ve been involved & the guilty brought to book
    iii) As violence erupts across the state against Hindu temples and Brahmins, the state and police are their usual emasculated self. The media is least interested.

    Such is medieval India where the rule of law and justice have been discarded into the dustbins. There’s no confidence in the “justice” system and hence there’s tit-for-tat retaliation in a steady downward spiral towards nationwide medievalism! Unless the justice system is reformed, I don’t see any deceleration in our spiral.

    Jai Ho?
    Sanjay

  215. xyz said, on September 16, 2009 at 8:26 am

    Sanjay,
    You can read some of my comments to understand the undercurrents.But swift action was taken and peace was restored.These were ‘local’ incidents and prompt action was taken so that they remained local.

    TN is a haven of peace because ‘everyone’ has accepted the ‘social justice’ formulations.Everyone except a few like RC:)

  216. cipcipcia said, on January 25, 2010 at 5:28 pm

    how can I add to bookrmark your blog? would you like to visit mine? regards!

  217. SeneunfalaVaw said, on October 4, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Hello there to all of you
    I just registered an account here….
    I really love the atmosphere here. Great work by the administrator and moderators and everyone here
    I just received a website from my friend via one of my social network account.
    http://www.expert-website-tips.co.uk/?p=439
    what is it? is it some kind of virus or something?

  218. anitha1234 said, on November 1, 2010 at 7:53 am

    Hd Wallpapers for free, sorted by categories. Easy to search hd wallpapers for your desktop background. Customize your background with cool hd wallpapers. Tamanna

  219. karthick said, on December 23, 2010 at 7:24 pm

    paithiyakaara payaluga thaan….nice tamil word “veembu”. Pigheadedness about insignificant things?

    I will wear Western clothes, use many articles each day that were invented all over the world, use the Internet but I care deeply about my language. Why stop at language? Why not extend it to my location / my car / my shoe size? Makes as much sense.

    And who best to utilize this pigheadedness? Or should I say, create this pigheadedness? Our not-so-friendly neighbors. Gults/Mallus. No love lost.

    Justice Party founders – Nair/Thiagaraya Chetty/Munuswamy Naidu/Ramaswamy Naidu. Yenda oruthanaavadu saadur agaraadila irukkara saadiyaada? Kena payalugala! I dont mind if we live nearby; just don’t presume to tell me my history.

    Annadurai amma peru Bangarammal. Nammaal manaivi peru Dayalu (Thunaivi/Kanavi/Sumaivi ellam vittuduvom). Yenda, idhu ellam tamil naatu peyargalaada? Aana naanga thaan tamilukke kaavakkaaranganu solluvom. “Maaran” used to be the title of Pandiya kings – the current Gult maarans can’t even speak proper Tamil. Excite them and they will probably say “Donganekkodukka”.

    Forget about violence, misuse of power, etc., I don’t even want to see this pig on TV. Not even as a kathaasiriyar/pulavar.

    Brahmin not from Tamil Nadu – is he from AP? May be Maharashtra? Or Orissa/Bengal brought here by Rajaraja? Sari, irukkattum. Valluvar talks about Paarpanar. So does Naaladiyaar. So apparently we (note gentle reader, WE, not they) came here some time back. And are we the last immigrants of the world? We sympathize with Sri Lankan Tamils, but will condemn Tamil Brahmins. The times tell us to not let the best man do the job. They tell us to compete. What does that mean? They tell us, let my life not mean anything, but I have to make sure no one else’s does either.

    I know IP tracking. Don’t even TRY IT :-)). Unless you love nasty surprises.

    Fed up of Kaliyuga. Scriptures say, I believe, that during the fag end of Kaliyuga, people will lose track of time. We still say “Kaliyuge prathame padhe” (first half of Kaliyuga), but may be we are in for a shock. Hope we are! Cheers.

  220. karthick said, on December 23, 2010 at 7:50 pm

    Just noticed that the Wikipedia page for “Brahmin” allows edits, but the page for “Periyar” is protected. Apparently, Periyar’s biography should not be discussed. Tells me something about the “mooda nambikkai” of people. We create the gods today, but it was not always like this.

  221. MALLIKARJUNA SHARMA said, on September 11, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    PERIYAR STATUE DISPUTE

    Going by the version on your website I don’t understand why atheists or admirers of atheists should crave for installation of any statues for that matter. I am an atheist and I will be the last person to request or demand the statue of any person, and will not agree to it even it be of my own deceased and respected father’s.

    And if they want to install it in the temple premises or near it hurting the sentiments of lakhs of believers that has to be condemned in no uncertain terms. You may not believe but you should also stand for the rights and sentiments of those who believe as long as that [belief] does not degenerate into madness. That is the core of democracy and the famous saying attributed to Voltaire may be fresh in minds of all democrats.

    As far as I remember Periyar was shunned by his own followers long back and that’s how DMK came into existence and then power. Periyar is remembered only for his pioneering role in propagating, for good or bad, his version of atheism and rebellion against casteo-cracy if that word is permitted. To drag him posthumously into such melee is unwarranted and I don’t think he himself would have approved of any statue for himself.

  222. MALLIKARJUNA SHARMA said, on September 12, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    “Periyar was born as Erode Venkata Naicker Ramasami in Erode in Madras Presidency. He was born into a family of Balija Naidu caste,a Telugu Jathi of traders and cultivators in Erode.” Periyar’s mother was a Kannada woman and his mother tongue was Kannada.

    One netizen Yogananda laments: “I am ashame[d], that tamil people are ruled by the other state people, Mr.periyar(Telugu),Mr.Annadurai(telugu), Mr.karunanidhi(telugu),Mr.M.G.Ramachandran(kerala),Ms.Jayalalitha(karnataka),now vijaykant(Telugu). Where is [are] the tamil people, why we r leaving [letting] them to rule us.
    we have to thing about this.

    It seems people of Telugu origin in Tamil Nadu easily forget their mother tongue, adopt Tamil for all purposes, and turn more linguistic fanatical than original Tamils themselves!

  223. rocky5 said, on December 26, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    its sad to such things happening in south. In north we dont get any news like this as the whole media is controlled by anti-hindu. Hindu from north and south must stand united as our ancestors did in past. Be it Pritviraj chauhan (north), Shivaji raja (maratha, middle India) or the great Raja raja (south), all of them fought for dharma. dear south indian brothers please check out “pre-harappan ancity found” documentry in youtube, once, Before making any conclusion about aryan invasion theory. Its worth watching, after all the theory was a colonial construction during british raj. British had a policy of divide and rule.

  224. gnanaguru said, on December 28, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    Pilaiyar imaga at Chidambaram moolasthanam is most sexiest of all ganapathi vigrahams

  225. gnanaguru said, on December 28, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    சிதம்பரம் கோவிலில் தெஷினாமூர்த்தி அருகில் உள்ள ஆபாசமாக உள்ள பிள்ளையார் சிலையை கண்டிப்பாக பார்க்கவும்

  226. arbhaskhan said, on September 12, 2012 at 11:50 am

    E V Ramasamy Naikkar amassed enough wealth to fund such vandalism in future. His Barbaric followers are many times the people from other religious faith (Converted ones) or the people who are from uncivilised society.

  227. realitycheck said, on August 15, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Msg to prev commenter : I had to delete about 5 of your comments for highly vulgar language. My normal inclination is to let even the worst language through – but we are in a time of censorship. We’re already being targeted – check Deora’s piece yesterday obliquely hinting that those show speak against Idea of India arent jailed and we ought to be thankful for that mercy. I look around and guess who is the only one speaking against it.

    Thanks to all commenters for the over 5000 comments. Keep them coming but keep em civil so minority voices such as this blogs remain free.


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