Reality Check India

No quotas for Muslims in education – HRD

Posted in Uncategorized by realitycheck on January 30, 2007

 

This blog has said several times that even after presenting data in the form of the Sachar report, the muslims will not be given a subquota.  This is the way “social justice” works in India today. 

Confirmed today via this news flash :

Faced with sharp division of opinion, a committee appointed by Union HRD Minister Arjun Singh has decided against recommending quotas for Muslims in educational institutions.
 

On Reality Check in the past : “MJ Akbar gets it right on Sachar“, “Sachar literacy rate puzzle“, “Muslims have an unequal share – Manmohan” (which is now proven to be crocodile tears), “Sachar report and Muslim OBC“, “On Measurement – Manmohan Singh” (now proven to be hot air, because even after measurement they get no place on the quota platform, “Sachar – perils of group quotas“.

With absolutely no data, the wealthy, dominant, and well educated creamy layer OBCs are able to walk away with a direct quota in the most elite institutions. There was no opposition (or even opinion) from so called “socially conscious” bloggers of the Indian variety. Less surprising was our OBC politicians, who passed the bill in both houses with only a voice vote.

This kind of gross injustice to the muslims will lead to more alienation in that community. Some might just be tempted to take up a B.Tech in RDX technology. Like the Naxalite movement, our broken social justice platforms will be squarely to blame.

Everything except quotas for Muslims

The committee has recommended instead more neighbourhood schools in Muslim areas, scholarships, vocational training for youths and more seats in minority institutions such as the Aligarh Muslim University.

. . .

The panel has decided that the government should set up primary schools for Muslim girls, on the lines of Navodaya Vidyalayas, wherever Muslim population exceeds 1,000,” said sources. “Just as SC and ST populations are prioritised, areas with Muslim population will also be given priority for schools.

Also recommended are school transport for girls, vocational training for Muslim youths, especially those belonging to families of artisans

. . .

On coaching facilities for Muslims seeking admission to IITs and IIMs, sources said the focus would be on “coaching for general improvement across the gamut, and not just competitive-exam specific

Source : New Indian Express

Wow! Neighbourhood schools, scholarships, coaching facilities for IITs, special incentives for girl students, school transport. Why didnt we think of these earlier ? 

These are the very things that were considered to be grossly inadequate for OBCs. They would have none of this crap, but insisted on outright quotas without consideration for creamy layer.  The OBC quota was not even backed by facts. We had no Sachar report showing  the socio-economic-educational profile of Yadavs, or Kurmis, or Mudalis, or Ezhavas, or 3000 other castes.  Till date we do not have an actionable definition of “socially and educationally backward”.

How come these are going to work for Muslims (especially in the states of West Bengal and Assam who have to compete as forward castes) ? If you setup exclusive primary schools on the lines of Navodaya for muslim areas only, what impact will that have on others who have no such schools in their areas ?

According to the UPA, OBCs from the south (includes muslims too)  get quotas in AIIMS/IIT/IIM with no requirements to establish backwardness, but really backward muslims (who have data to prove it) get to attend coaching facilities. Fair enough ? Deal ?

Two rules for two sets of people. This is secularism in action.

PS:

Socially conscious bloggers and Peoples journals – you can exercise your right to remain silent now. The Hindu paper columnists – this is your cue to write about burning issues such as the state of the opposition party in Taiwan or to call for fresh thinking on the Sudanese economy.

Advertisements

16 Responses

Subscribe to comments with RSS.

  1. Sri said, on January 30, 2007 at 4:07 pm

    Since when did the word of a Congress-appointed committee bocome “Word Of God”?Surely you don’t think the Congress-wallahs had a sudden attack of empathy for the Muslims,when it was absent for 55 years?

    And even assuming the report is right,what is the guarantee that the benefits reach those at the bottom?What if the dole is usurped by the creamy layer Muslims??

    One can argue endlessly ,but reservations on religious lines will destroy India,mark my words.
    In the end,it all boils down to this:
    Have a survey done of economic and educationally backward communities and have reservations for them.

  2. Reason said, on January 30, 2007 at 5:10 pm

    The point about RDX technology – if poverty or reserved seats to education were the issues, there are a lot of groups that can claim justification in turning to RDX. The extremely poor in orissa who remain poor when their state gets nothing out of the mines, migrant labourers who stay on the roads.. RDX technology is a result of a different ideology, you would know that.

  3. realitycheck said, on January 30, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    >> Have a survey done of economic and educationally backward communities and have reservations for them >>

    I think you are new to this blog 🙂

    For the purpose of this post, let us stay with reality.

    The reality is there is no data available for SEBCs. Not only that, there is also no actionable definition of how a caste gets classified as SEBC and remains to be so.

    Can we use the nebulousness of this group as a stick to beat the Muslims – while using the same nebulousness as a carrot to OBCs ?

  4. realitycheck said, on January 30, 2007 at 6:02 pm

    Reason,

    I think the poor landless peasants of Orissa / Bihar / AP will not take up B.Tech in RDX, they prefer B.Tech in Dynamites. I said that only in half-jest. The naxal movement is a by product of absence of social justice to this group. Social justice is not just about college seats, it is also about land and political reform.

    There are plenty of groups who do not resort to violent ways, even in the face of social injustice or discrimination. Two examples are Kashmiri Pandits and at the other end Bhangis and other castes who are still very much discriminated. Not every group is susceptible or organized enough to take to RDX.

    As you pointed out, Muslims are very much predisposed to the use of violence to stem what they rightly or wrongly perceive as injustice. I am not crying for over-the-top appeasement to prevent this. I am just making the case against WANTON discrimination – and later complaining that some of them acted on their predisposed emotions.

    Just put yourself in the shoes of a bright but poor muslim student in the grimy slums of Midnapore, WB. He sees powerful OBCs help themselves to a walloping 18K Cr party without even a definition of how they got to be OBCs. He is classified as Forward even when the richest muslim communities such as Mappilahs and muslims of KA/TN are backward.

    There may be many really poor muslims who have no idea that a quota even exists (just like the poor hindu castes who break stones in quarries, or those who pour tar on roads, or those who carry night soil). I am just focusing on the muslims who are educated enough to know that they are being denied what other take for granted.

  5. Barbarindian said, on January 30, 2007 at 7:00 pm

    Off topic:

    RC,

    I don’t know about you but I am getting a lot of hits from Indian metros looking for OBC quota information. I just got a few for “OBC QUOTA IN 2007 IN IIT” from guess where: Calcutta. These do not follow the pattern for the usual searches from anti-reservation folks. I think these are the dudes!

  6. rc said, on January 30, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    Barb,

    LOL ! The folks from Calcutta are in for a rude shock. Only 6.3% of Bengalis are eligible for the OBC quota in IIM/AIIMS/IIT – where as 73.5% of Tamils are (latest NSSO data 61st round verified by 55th round). I guess most bengali papers will not tell them this. They will only find out when it is IIT or AIIMS application time.

    They can google all they want, it is only going to get them to this blog or yours. They really need to take the commies to the cleaners for denying them legitimate benefits (especially Bengali muslims 99% of whom are classified as forward castes).

  7. Reason said, on January 31, 2007 at 3:18 am

    when you mention a bright but poor muslim student from a slum in Midnapore, I need to also point out to bright but poor Brahmin students from rural Tamil Nadu.
    A process that correctly identifies social/educational backwardness can help (justifiably) both.

  8. Sri said, on January 31, 2007 at 3:06 pm

    Actually I have been reading your blog for the past 1-1.5 months.So I’m not that new.And your blog is good. 🙂
    Anyway……….
    >>The reality is there is no data available for SEBCs. Not only that, there is also no actionable definition of how a caste gets classified as SEBC and remains to be so.>>
    Who is asking for a “caste” to be classified as SEBC??
    Classify “families” as SEBC.If there is no data,collect it!!Where is the data of OBCs??We don’t even have a definition of an OBC!!!
    And why do those classified as SEBC have to “remain so”??
    We can have reservations for a family only for 2-3 generations,even that depending on the economic status.
    Also, I don’t see how reservations for Muslims will help them.
    That they are supposedly not in the mainstream is because most of them voluntarily “chose” to be out of it.And Muslims ruled India for many centuries.So,their backwardness was not because of the social discrimination (unlike the SCs).
    .

  9. Sri said, on January 31, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Actually I have been reading your blog for the past 1-1.5 months.So I’m not that new.And your blog is good. 🙂
    Anyway……….
    >>The reality is there is no data available for SEBCs. Not only that, there is also no actionable definition of how a caste gets classified as SEBC and remains to be so.>>
    I was talking about Economic and Educationally Backward Classes not SEBC.I think Social backwardness varies directly as the economic backwardness(except maybe in the case of some upper castes who may not be socially backward in spite of being economically backward)

    Now.I hope I am not boring you.I think you must have come across these arguments.Don’t know what your stand is on this.
    Anyway,
    Who is asking for a “caste” to be classified as SEBC/EEBC??
    Classify “families” into the EEBC category.If there is no data,it has to be collected!!We don’t even have a definition of an OBC as you say.
    And why do those classified as EEBC have to “remain so”??
    We can have reservations for a family only for 2-3 generations,even that depending on the economic status.
    Also, I don’t see how reservations for Muslims will help them.
    That they are supposedly not in the mainstream is because most of them voluntarily “chose” to be out of it.And Muslims ruled India for many centuries.So,importantly,their backwardness is NOT because of the social discrimination (unlike the SCs and STs).

  10. Reason said, on January 31, 2007 at 3:37 pm

    Sri,
    the issue of status of Muslims can not be seen with Muslims as a monolithic group (though politicians do it that way since it is good for votebank). Indian Muslims are of Indian stock – people who converted several generations back. It appears like their caste identities remain after conversion, and there are equivalents of Hindu Dalit castes among Muslims as well who are treated as untouchables among the Muslims. There was a IE article that covered this – http://www.indianexpress.com/story/12109.html

    If the information there is correct, you will have a case of social/educational backwardness based on current occupation and exclusion there.

    The reservation programme should identify individual beneficiaries on the basis of proof of their backwardness – the occupation of parents in particular. If deprivation due to occupations based on caste is the basis for this, then it is obvious that the current occupation should be the factor in deciding. and why even 2-3 generations?

  11. realitycheck said, on January 31, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Sri,

    The constitution only allows for special provisions to the “Socially and Educationally Backward”. If we want to convert it into “Economically and Educationally Backward” – we will need to amend Art 15 of the constitution.

  12. Sri said, on February 1, 2007 at 4:19 am

    Reason,
    >>It appears like their caste identities remain after conversion>>
    Precisely!!
    It is obvious that religion has got nothing to do with backwardness(apart from the fact that Muslims could do more to integrate themselves with India)
    I can see that the point being made here is that backward Muslims are being excluded from reservations because they are “Muslim”.True.
    Then,why can’t we have a universal definition of “backwardness”.
    The present one based on “caste” is the cause for all the problems.

    rc,
    Forget the constitution for a while
    As I said earlier,
    “I think Social backwardness varies directly as the economic backwardness..”
    Could you comment on this?

  13. realitycheck said, on February 2, 2007 at 5:28 am

    Sri,

    You are asking some really fundamental questions.

    What it really relates to is a question of classification, right ? You are asking which is a better way to classify – caste of economic circumstances. (Mandal classified purely on caste, Indira Sawhney added economic circumstances as a filter). Let us ignore TN for the moment (it violates both – incorrect classification and the absence of a filter ).

    First, what is your objective of classification. It is to help create a casteless society, one in which caste is not the determining factor but individual ability is.

    The SC observed in the NM Thomas vs Kerala case (google for it, I am too tired )
    —–

    The classification, however, must be a reasonable one and must fulfil the following conditions:
    (i) it must have a rational basis;
    (ii) it must have a close nexus with the object
    sought to be achieved;
    (iii)it should not select any person for hostile
    discrimination at the cost of others.

    What object is sought to be achieved by economic classification ? Why is economic exclusion (eg creamy layer) insufficient ?

    The real issue is : (sorry for the harsh words) to get the “fat cats” out of the way in our social justice programs. The fat cats could be entire castes who do not have social data to prove their backwardness, the are “in” due to policital power (or) wealthy families who generation after generation corner benefits for themselves (the creamy layer).

    If we cant deal with “caste based fat cats “, how can we be sure we can deal with “poverty based fat cats” ? Eg, wealthy businessmen producing a poverty certificate.

    Note: Pushing economic classification too far is the road to communism. If that is the objective (point 2) then it is a legitimate route.

  14. obc said, on April 4, 2007 at 8:34 am

    YOU are a bastard !

  15. […] was conveniently hidden until the Sachar report came out.  The Sachar report, far from being a rigorous exercise, is still a step towards the truth.  It is a sliver of […]

  16. […] not everyone. This blog has  always held that M.J. Akbar is one of the very few true intellectuals in India. I dont mean being […]


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: