Reality Check India

UPA romps home comfortably

Posted in Uncategorized by realitycheck on May 16, 2009

The BJP should do some serious introspection. Can hindu-anything work in a caste based polity ? It can grow only by undermining caste as the staging unit.

The left is on its death bed. You do not make friendship with the Congress for five years and not expect to lose in a direct fight.  In the entire five years they were in the media limelight, they never made it clear exactly how they were different from the Congress. The muslim vote in Bengal may never return due to the Sachar report.

The DMK pulls off a surprise victory. The more the AIADMK Is out of power, the more vote marshals will desert it. This is a vicious cycle already turned two spirals down. The party may not survive another couple of defeats.

Expect more social engineering based on caste, which is sure to dilute the BJP even further.

I hope Rahul is made the PM and not Manmohan Singh. However, it does not matter much this time though because the Congress will have almost complete control of the new government.

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55 Responses

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  1. reason said, on May 16, 2009 at 7:45 am

    The TN result is a surprise. Congress ministers including Chidambaram are still shown trailing. Read what you want into it.

    BJP is probably winning Mangalore. That is a huge victory and can hold the ground for the future.

    Days of blogging are over. If you feel serious about anything, time for doing some work about it. If you do feel serious about ‘Hindu-anything’, consider joining RSS. I am pretty serious about this.

    Blogging, reasoning, debating etc were good. But they turn out to be like blindmen figuring out an elephant.

  2. Barbarindian said, on May 16, 2009 at 8:16 am

    Days of blogging are over.

    I am afraid you are drawing the wrong conclusion. People should do what they are best at. This is called specialization.

    Political exclusion should be a major motivation for blogging, more of it. Bloggers like RC should go at it like there is no tomorrow, how else do you think the Social Justice express can be slowed?

    Plain ranting does not help much. What we need is objective reporting. If one is passionate about certain personally important issues, that is ok too, including religious sentiments.

    What does not work is bloggers trying to run political campaign. Either you are in the core team or not. This has backfired in a major way.

    There is more to life than just elections, in India it translates into survival.

  3. Albert said, on May 16, 2009 at 9:08 am

    I think, one thing is clear from the results… You cannot make your party win the elections by writing blogs 😛 *hints at offstumped*

  4. Indianlad said, on May 16, 2009 at 12:58 pm

    People are fallen prey to the pseudos and corrupts again!

  5. xyz said, on May 16, 2009 at 1:50 pm

    RC,

    Did chidambaram win fairly.Any information.He was trailing all along and his result was announced very late.what about baalu?

    At the all india level the elite are firmly behind the congress.As a middling middle class guy,i ‘understand’ why a fatalistic theory of karma developed.Ofcourse,no reason for an indvidual to be indifferent.But i can now see why indians could not develop any sense of political unity.

  6. B Shantanu said, on May 16, 2009 at 2:04 pm

    RC, You and your readers will find these observations of a Congress sympathiser interesting: http://tinyurl.com/pk49zs

  7. rc said, on May 16, 2009 at 2:25 pm

    Reason,

    No way, blogging will continue. Atleast as long as the national secret (i.e. performance data of the social justice platforms) are hidden.

    I have no explanation for the TN result. Everyone I know from all castes are completely surprised. My best explanation is that the flow of money really enthused the vote marshals who used it the best they could. Anyonne from TN can tell you at the ground level, there is almost no difference between the DMK and ADMK cadres. It is a flexible concept.

    Anyway, this ought to lay to rest the concept of Tamil race. The SL tamils have to hope the UN takes up their cause.

  8. rc said, on May 16, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    Reason,

    Barbarindian has replied to you correctly.

    There is much more in Indian life to elections, after all we can all play the secular game in public life.

    Privately if so inclined, there are a lot of initiatives we do to take up protection of Hindu causes, which will be put under more pressure in the next 5 years.

  9. xyz said, on May 16, 2009 at 4:06 pm

    Did chidambaram win in a fair manner? Interested in your opinion.Because there was quite some confusion

  10. rc said, on May 16, 2009 at 4:39 pm

    xyz,

    No idea. It seems there was a recount and he won. TR Baalu also seems to have scraped through after some confusion.

    Money power seems to have worked. At the ground level, there is really no difference between the two fronts. So the most motivated vote marshals work for the front flush with funds, only if they cannot find vacancy they work for the other fronts. The money power asymmetry does not bode well for the AIADMK. Remember the Christian and Muslims are not coming back to the AIADMK so it they start with -20%. The PMK failed miserably because it did not do anything for Vanniars. There is no way the DMK would have won otherwise merely by fielding Mr Jagat also a Vanniar.

    I believe the same was true in AP also. Money wins. The more you are in power, the more you will be in power.

  11. xyz said, on May 16, 2009 at 5:06 pm

    RC,

    Thanks for responding.I do not want to get personal.But i cannot help wondering what all these high sounding words like democracy mean,if everything is going to be decided merely by numbers,muscle power,corruption and bribery while paying obeisance to freedom,equality etc.

  12. rc said, on May 16, 2009 at 5:13 pm

    xyz,

    Unfortunately democracy does not mean much, just a system of voting. No rights , no justice.

    While we are on the topic of money power :

    The BJP kept quiet on the spectrum scam ( I wrote over 10 posts on it to show my outrage). Now they should be prepared to pay the price.

    There will be people who claim money power wont work with middle class. THey forget that the middle class has been attached to quota benefits (see Dixits consistent win in Delhi).

    It is only the wretched that can be purchased. The Congress will ensure that such a population is available at all time.

  13. revathi said, on May 17, 2009 at 7:46 am

    I have relatives who are from the constituency where Azhagiri won by a small margin- a lot of people had been just struck off from the voters list and large scale distribution of cash and threats resulted DMK victory. The major opponent, a CPM candidate was well known for being an honest and clean person. Very very sad for Madurai-

  14. xyz said, on May 17, 2009 at 10:02 am

    No offence meant to anyone.

    Alagiri is the chozha overlord of Madurai.Prince in waiting.Akin to the prince of wales.

    So Madurai has to be put up with alagiris ‘arajakam’.Its very natural.I sometimes feel madurai deserves it,given the general intelligence level of most maduriites.

    Had posted long time back,that though tamil language is the common heritage of tamils,tamils have never been politically united.Alagiri is living proof of Chola imperialism which had a nasty side particularly during the time of Later Imperial Cholas.This was conveniently glossed over by writers like kalki who demonised the kannadiga chalukyas.

    In India even remote past affects the present.

  15. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Revathi Madam

    If 1,40,000 is small margin, that shows how far from reality you are actually

    Mohan is a very very good candidate.

    But who will vote for him when he joins with JJ

    All the government servants and Trade Unions are against JJ

    Only 3 categories of people vote for JJ

    1. MGR Fans
    2. Those who got money from ADMK
    3. ADMK party cadres
    4. Brahmins

    If you see the result in Kanyakumari where the communist candidate lost his deposit you will know the truth

  16. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:04 am

    DMK won because of many factors

    1. Muslims will not vote for JJ
    2. Christians will not vote for JJ
    3. Those who want Sethusamudram will not vote for JJ
    4. Most of OBC (except Thevars) will not vote JJ
    4. Those who got Color TV, Gas Stove will vote for DMK

    So many factors

    Vote for Cash is a factor, but not the only factor

  17. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:08 am

    JJ is a non entity in TN Politics

    only the brahmin dominated english and tv media and brahmin and rss bloggers eulogise her

    in the past 20 years she has faced 15 election
    Lok Sabha – 1989, 1991, 1996, 1998, 1999, 2004, 2009
    Legislature – 1989, 1991, 1996, 2001, 2006
    Local Body – 1996, 2001, 1006

    She has won in just 5 of them

    1991 and 1998 in Lok Sabha and 1991 and 2001 in Legislature and 2001 in Local Body

    That is a very very poor 33 %

    And if you take away the 2001 election where Rajiv Gandhi’s death had a massive wave it is a pathetic 3 victories in 13 elections

    And the last time she won was in 2001. After that she has continously lost 2004 loksabha ,2006 Legislature, 2006 Local Body and 2009 Lok Sabha – Straight 4 defeats

    But the Brahmin Dominated English Media and TV channels create a false hype as though she is a prominent figure

  18. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:11 am

    This election has give a very strong result from Tamil Nadu

    1. We prefer DMK as we are satisfied with their rule 18 wins out of 21

    2. Congress is responsible for Eelam trouble and that is why JJ, MDMK, CPI, CPM could win few seats here and there

    Of course, every one except ADMK cadre and the Brahmin / RSS Bloggers are happy with the result

  19. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:15 am

    In India more than 50 percent are OBC

    In that case, BJP was a traitor as far as Reservations are considered.

    OBCs all around the country has taught BJP a big lesson. We hindus will vote for you only if you do good for us.

    Message from Hindus to BJP – If you treat us like Hindus while getting our votes and give benefits only to brahmins and upper caste, get lost

    Hindus in 1999 thought that BJP was a party for all hindus. But their double game in Quota Issue has exposed that BJP wants all hindu votes, but benefits only for Brahmins and Upper Castes.

    So the verdict is clear. Vote for the party that implemented reservations and gives benefits to all hindus and not just brahmins

  20. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:22 am

    //Blogging, reasoning, debating etc were good. But they turn out to be like blindmen figuring out an elephant.//

    exactly. just few thousands educated upper caste people thinking that they can continue fooling the OBCs and SC Hindus like the pre independence era like what you have been doing from vedic times

    we have been educated and we want our rights

    //People are fallen prey to the pseudos and corrupts again!//
    They have identified the the real BJP – Brahmin welfare party

    //I have no explanation for the TN result. Everyone I know from all castes are completely surprised.//

    Only brahmins are surprised. The result was on the wall. No one will vote again for JJ after what she did in her previous regime

    Ask Kanchi Sankaracharya whether he was surprised. he will tell you

    //Remember the Christian and Muslims are not coming back to the AIADMK so it they start with -20%//
    Haa you speak logic

    it is not only christian and muslim
    it includes trade unions, govt employees
    kanchi sankaracharya devotees

    a long list really

    Exceptions are people like Revathy who consider 1.4 lakhs as a small margin

  21. anon said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:35 am

    Tavusar,

    What is your take on the neo -chozha imperialism of azhagiri

    Why are konars and mutharayars pi…d off with dravidian parties.

    why did Raja Kannappan and Ku pa Krishnan rejoin ADMK.

    What is your stand on the ‘imaalayan’ corruption of karu,’paalu’ and ‘raasa’.

    Why did ‘pa chidamparam’ huff and puff to win in chivakankai.

    what do you feel about the massacre of pallars in the tamravaruni river during the previous DMK regime.

    Why dont you see pallars in Group A posts of TN govt or for that matter in the social,political,cultural and economic life of TN.

    Are pallars fairly represented in dravidian parties,ministries,faculty of Madras Medical College,Anna University

  22. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 11:57 am

    //What is your take on the neo -chozha imperialism of azhagiri// If he continues like this, he will meet the same election result as JJ

    //Why are konars and mutharayars pi…d off with dravidian parties.//
    Only you tell this

    //why did Raja Kannappan and Ku pa Krishnan rejoin ADMK.//
    Because they were given seat in the other place

    //What is your stand on the ‘imaalayan’ corruption of karu,’paalu’ and ‘raasa’.//
    Very Much less compared to what JJ

    //Why did ‘pa chidamparam’ huff and puff to win in chivakankai.//
    Because he was considered as one of the causes of Eelam trouble

    //what do you feel about the massacre of pallars in the tamravaruni river during the previous DMK regime.//
    Done by a section of police loyal to JJ with an aim to create communal tension

    //Why dont you see pallars in Group A posts of TN govt or for that matter in the social,political,cultural and economic life of TN.//
    We do see them in Group A post of TN Govt and also in Social political cultural and economic life of TN.

    //Are pallars fairly represented in dravidian parties,ministries,faculty of Madras Medical College,Anna University//
    Yes. Pallar and Paraiyars are fairly represented. TN has 18 % reservation which is fully implemented unlike in IITs were racist directors cheat the govt and public

    Only Arundhatiars lack behind in that 18 % .
    DMK has taken action for that also

  23. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 12:00 pm

    //chivakankai.//

    You cannot even spell Sivagangai properly
    It shows your level of understanding of tamilnadu

    You seem to have only hatred for a party that made everyone temple priests and become collectors and ministers.

  24. rc said, on May 17, 2009 at 3:23 pm

    tavusar –

    Well congratulations.

    Do not unnecessarily bring Brahmin – OBC into this. Dont mislead about the Brahmin media. The OBC own almost all electronic channels and newspapers. In fact, the ‘B’ in OBC cannot stand for ‘Backward’ unless supported by data.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but you are against the AIADMK only because their leader JJ is a brahmin ? Wow ! You are a great specimen of fake Tamil culture. Remember such racism is exactly what is laying to waste Tamils in SL. I do not know where you live, but unless you are in a few pockets, chances are there are no Brahmins within 100 sq km of you. This is the reality in TN today.

    You are correct about a lot of Kanchi devotees (Brahmins) abandoning AIADMK for good. This is an issue they will never forgive her. I know several who actually voted DMK in the last assembly elections in order to defeat her.

    How did BJP betray the OBC cause (TN has a remarkable 73% OBC) ? I thought they supported the quota bill and they did not press for a study nor did they oppose the creamy layer. What more do you want them to do ?

    This was an issueless election. So the winners cannot claim they won on issues.

  25. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 3:35 pm

    //Do not unnecessarily bring Brahmin – OBC into this.//

    BJP lost fair and square because the OBC at last found out that the party is behaving like a parasite. Getting their votes, but giving benefits to Brahmins

    //Dont mislead about the Brahmin media. The OBC own almost all electronic channels and newspapers.//

    Any look at the coverage of reservation protests will tell the truth as to how the media reacted to it

    The same with making Jayalalitha, who is not even respected in Tamilnadu as a kingmaker

    // In fact, the ‘B’ in OBC cannot stand for ‘Backward’ unless supported by data.//

    B stands for backward. It can be supported by data. But the brahmin judges do not even allow a caste based census as a caste based census will give data

    They cheat people by asking for data at one side and not allowing caste based data at the other side

    //Correct me if I am wrong, but you are against the AIADMK only because their leader JJ is a brahmin ? //
    Not at all. We are against JJ for her anti poor activities and massive corruption

    // I do not know where you live, but unless you are in a few pockets, chances are there are no Brahmins within 100 sq km of you. //
    What if I live in Chennai High Court Judge Quarters. It is surrounded by Brahmins

    //How did BJP betray the OBC cause//
    By not opposing the various illegal actions against OBC. If BJP had condemned IIT Chennai Director Anand recruiting Brahmins without following reservation, that is the correct way. but they always protect brahmins only. they not worried about other hindus

    //This was an issueless election. So the winners cannot claim they won on issues.//
    This was the election for OBC to thank congress. They did it. Now congress should remove the creamy layer and arrest officers doing illegal appointments

    Next time all hindus give congress majority and only brahmins vote for bjp

  26. anon said, on May 17, 2009 at 4:50 pm

    tavusar,

    The DMK chief scoundrel wants reservation for eternity.

    The whole of india knows about the ‘imalayan’ corruption of paalu and raacha.

    I do not have to learn phonetics from you tavuchar.

    Are pallars material possessions/land holdings/business assets/media presence/cultural presence/ministerial appointments in state/central govt position as fraction of vanniars/gounders/thevars/mudaliars/chettiars/nadars/reddiars/naidus.

    What is the no of private schools/engg colleges owned by pallars.

    Yes you are the know all regarding TN.Everyone knows some communities including pallars stand no chance of anything resembling fair representation in Gr A services whether under DMK or ADMK.

    Can you prove me wrong by quoting % of pallars in Gr A posts including DROs,ASPs etc

  27. anon said, on May 17, 2009 at 4:54 pm

    Why didnt the arch scoundrel of DMK take action against the police aapichars if they were guilty.

    Is cold blooded murder of pallars ok?

  28. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 5:10 pm

    //The DMK chief scoundrel wants reservation for eternity.//
    DMK wants reservation to uplift all castes and free them from brahmins

    //The whole of india knows about the ‘imalayan’ corruption of paalu and raacha.//
    But it is very small when compared to what JJ did and even admitted in Supreme court. But brahmin judges in Supreme court helped her

    //I do not have to learn phonetics from you tavuchar.//
    i at least have a name tavuchar. you don’t even have it

    //Are pallars material possessions/land holdings/business assets/media presence/cultural presence/ministerial appointments in state/central govt position as fraction of vanniars/gounders/thevars/mudaliars/chettiars/nadars/reddiars/naidus.//
    Yes. Better than what it was when brahmins were ruling. And under DMK rule it is only increasing

    //What is the no of private schools/engg colleges owned by pallars.//
    Not yet counted. But for 2000 years brahmins did not allow them to read and write. only periyar and dmk gave education to all downtrodden

    //Yes you are the know all regarding TN.Everyone knows some communities including pallars stand no chance of anything resembling fair representation in Gr A services whether under DMK or ADMK.//
    you are wrong. Only DMK will uplift downtrodden. ADMK and BJP only uplift brahmins. RSS Kills non hindus in Gujarat. RSS also keep bomb in malegaon.

    //Can you prove me wrong by quoting % of pallars in Gr A posts including DROs,ASPs etc//
    Better than in other states
    Better than what it was when Brahmins were like parasites over other communities

    will improve under congress rule. BJP ADMK appoint only brahmins.

  29. டவுசர் said, on May 17, 2009 at 5:11 pm

    //Why didnt the arch scoundrel of DMK take action against the police aapichars if they were guilty.//
    Action taken
    But they later got good postings under ADMK

    ADMK kill pallars.
    ADMK kill pallar in kodiankulam also

    DMK only conduct election in pappapatti

    //Is cold blooded murder of pallars ok?//
    ADMK only kill pallar

  30. rc said, on May 17, 2009 at 5:19 pm

    >> Not at all. We are against JJ for her anti poor activities and massive corruption

    First there is no We. It is You.

    Second, I am not convinced you are not a racist. You do not have try to convince me. The same way I cannot convince you that I am not or dont have the power to be an oppressor. We Tamils will continue talking like this for generations while the world marches ahead.

    If OBC interests are close to you, you would have to be thankful to JJ. It is because of her clever trick the TN 69% is safely in the 9th schedule. You overlook this major factor. So, your concern for OBC welfare is largely fake. This means the credit you give her for securing the OBC quota for millions of Tamil OBCs for 19 years is not enough to surmount your hatred for her birth caste. This is the definition of racism, my friend.

    I dont know or dont care about any IIT employee or your quarters. Maybe you have some personal agenda or maybe the guy is a fraud.

  31. rc said, on May 17, 2009 at 5:23 pm

    Lets stop this thread here. Tavuchar – you can have the last word and then stop.

  32. Barbarindian said, on May 17, 2009 at 5:49 pm

    I am aghast at the militant and irrational attitude displayed by the person whose handle starts with the ‘L’ like character (sorry, do not know the language). I had no idea the situation was so bad in Tamil Nadu. Living with this mob in power must be worse than living under Islamic rule.

  33. டவுசர் said, on May 18, 2009 at 1:02 am

    //First there is no We. It is You.//
    Yes. You brahmins are all around the net as you developed 2000 years. we obc toil in field and gutters

    so you have many – you , reason, barbarindian, revathy to write in net.

    i alone to write net. but under dmk we also get free education. soon we equal you

    //It is because of her clever trick the TN 69% is safely in the 9th schedule. You overlook this major factor. So, your concern for OBC welfare is largely fake. This means the credit you give her for securing the OBC quota for millions of Tamil OBCs for 19 years is not enough to surmount your hatred for her birth caste. This is the definition of racism, my friend.//
    what trick.

    //Lets stop this thread here. Tavuchar – you can have the last word and then stop.//
    Aah that is great. you not ready to face truth. you write posts praising rss, killer modi, killer godse. but when we tell truth, you can’t face truth. you want to stop.

    you control media. you control tv. see you not permit me to write my views in blog too. but soon all of us get educate and we write our voice.

    you dominate 2000 years cheat us. now we study. we learn. you no more cheat.

    no problem. this your blog. so you win. we stop. soon we learn write blog. then we write. ok. good bye

    //Living with this mob in power must be worse than living under Islamic rule.//
    But better than living under killers like modi. or under brahmin rule where brahmin only top posts. other community vote only

    //militant and irrational attitude//
    not as much militant as rss or as irrational you blog – barbar – you blog total irrational. only your brahmin friends like the false glory. wake up. india has other caste other than brahmin. you don’t control others long

  34. Revathi said, on May 18, 2009 at 9:17 am

    Well Tausar, I am glad that you agreed with me that Mohan is a very very good candidate. You dont seem to agree on anything with the rest of the blog.

    For the first time in my life I am happy that I left TN, good for me and good for TN too from tausar’s point of view.

  35. reason said, on May 18, 2009 at 12:21 pm

    it was too tiring to see in detail what toucher was trying to say. But fact is a lot of brahmins vote congress. It happened in UP and turned it out from BSP to congress.

    well, we lost. screw us.

  36. reason said, on May 18, 2009 at 12:25 pm

    i said screw us and that still stands. but touser, just walk a little up north and you will see a lot of people classified as OBC’s voting for BJP. Lingayats in particular.

    anyways, we lost the debates (was there even a debate, given the kind of what touser comes up with now after a few years of that?), we lost the election, we are total losers. end of story.

  37. anon said, on May 18, 2009 at 1:15 pm

    I feel a lit bit guilty that i could have corrected the part about azhagiris margin.Should have corrected it.Some people who have orgasms about imaginary oppression go ‘mad’ when they perceive imaginary brahmin oppression/control/distortion of ‘facts’.

    As someone who lives in chennai and one who is still ‘optimistic’,because there are likes of RC still around and the basic decency of our people(not the leaders),i feel bit guilty when a harmless discussion goes off tangent.

    Barb and Revathi,

    TN is no pakistan despite the ‘best’efforts of a few(not so few perhaps) thugs.

    But tavuchar has missed one point.He admits to the thuggery of alagiri.The margin was not small.It means clearly thuggery was also of a very high order,apart from other factors.

    He ignores the murder of leelavathi,CPM worker,attack on Dinakaran,murder of krittinan(‘tamilised’ form of Krishnan, and worst the free rein for kallar(subsect of thevar) henchmen.He forgets the scandal that was the Tirumangalam by election.The Mayor of Madurai was at the forefront on the attack on Dinakaran.The karu family,who have never been known for any sense of shame,patched up.The sekular media quickly forgot the incredible spectacle of the Mayor leading the mob.

    If kallars support DMK,like the way Baalu does it is fine.The Madurai constituency was represented for long by AG Ram Babu of the Congress,who belonged to the Saurashtra weaving community which had migrated from Gujarat about 350 years back.

    That was not good enough for the DMK who replaced him by Mohan ,a kallar, of the CPM.But because CPM is now with the ADMK,the overlord has to step in himself.

    But then all this is result of Brahmin oppression for 5000 years and their momopoly over everything from aerospace to nanotechnology while denying others education.

    This is the mindset of karu and ramadoss.

    For the first time i am envying bright people like reason and revathi.Though things are sort of OK today,i have an inkling of a feeling like the proverbial ‘frog’ in the soup.

  38. Gaurav said, on May 19, 2009 at 2:00 am

    Sometimes I think if Dravidians (like the crazy guy in this thread) had managed to secede from India, TamBrams would have been sent to gas chambers. It is scary. Anyway I guess what I am saying is that ‘some’ TamBrams should be grateful that TamilNadu is part of India.

  39. rc said, on May 19, 2009 at 3:07 am

    Gaurav,

    >> ‘some’ TamBrams should be grateful that TamilNadu is part of India.

    You have no idea ! !

    Most of them owe a LOT to not only Hindi speaking Indians, but also to almost every other state. In the 50’s and 60’s hordes migrated out of TN due to an abrupt cut in opportunity and wave of minor but personal violence in TN. Things could have really gone wrong. The Tamil Brahmins got lucky because they were welcomed by Trivandrum (a huge chunk), Bangalore, Bombay, Nagpur, Secunderabad, Delhi, etc.

    The dravidian movement however is not idealogically complete. What is more, dravidian battery does not have the wattage required to secede or organize gas chambers.

    In issue after issue (except quotas to all except a few), the ‘dravidians parties’ have come up woefully short. There is no coherence or commitment. See the almost complete apathy towards the Sri Lankan Tamils. The Dravidian leaders missed no opportunity to point out that ‘Cho/Ram’/S.Swamy and others position on LTTE was proof that they were not Tamil”. Now that the Congress has swept the elections on the back of Christian / Muslim / Upper OBC (DMK) vote, they have to invent something else. Do the Christians in TN support the LTTE ?

    Another problem is the least known fact about TN.

    TN has about 40% Telugu speakers (by DMK second chief Stalins own estimate, which is usually correct). Almost all of them got here in the last 400-500 years. They did not just migrate here for jobs, they ruled the land, as far south as Srivilliputhur – Rajapalayam. The Telugus and Kannadigas who were fleeing from Adil Shah (15th century) kicked our behinds (so to speak). In fact, they waltzed in with minimum resistance. The muslims were almost here, but the Dutch and British were around by then. So, if you want to look for real Tamil martial glory, you would have to go back 1000 years. Even that would mostly be inter-Tamil fights, you would have to go back to the Pallavas (1600 years ago) for true Tamil martial glory that projected beyond present day borders (but then we do not know who the Pallavas actually were)

  40. Gaurav said, on May 19, 2009 at 5:08 am

    What is more, dravidian battery does not have the wattage required to secede or organize gas chambers.

    Oh I know that, it is just being a fan of alt-history I was wondering on the lines of Fatherland

    To explain my previous comment I am often amused by certain Middle class Tambrams present on nets who constantly try to disparage either India or Gangetic belt to get some Dravidian street cred.

  41. rc said, on May 19, 2009 at 6:08 am

    >> To explain my previous comment I am often amused by certain Middle class Tambrams present on nets who constantly try to disparage either India or Gangetic belt to get some Dravidian street cred.

    Whip them for me !!

    Reminds me of one of Kamal Haasans uncles(I think Charuhasan, but could be wrong). Story goes there was a bunch of cadres who where threatening to break a ganesh idol near his home. Upon hearing the mob, he went in and fetched a crowbar and broke it himself.

    Guess what, after the incident they still hated his ass to the exact same extent !

    The moral of the story. No street cred for you.

    • Gaurav said, on May 19, 2009 at 6:35 am

      Actually it makes me feel despondent. The sense of grievance and antipathy cultivated against rest of India in order to fortify a narrow identity will prove to be undoing of Indic civilization. Mind you I am not saying that there are not legitimate complaints against our centralized state but stretching this to imply imperialism by Gangetic belt borders on insanity.

  42. rc said, on May 19, 2009 at 7:54 am

    Change

    “.. a narrow identity …”

    to

    “.. a narrow interest …”

    Does it still make you feel despondent ?

    There is no overarching complaint against the centralized state, nor is there a allegation of imperialism, nor is there a genuine concern and pride for a particular regional identity . If that were the case, all our heroines and film producers would not be from the gangetic belt for example.

    Leaders and vested interests will say anything in order to protect their special and exclusive interests (read benefits) from examination. It is futile to search for some deep ideological theories when the simpler explanations are still on the table.

    • Gaurav said, on May 19, 2009 at 8:23 am

      Actually what makes me despondent goes beyond ideology or genuineness viz, interests are defined by identity, which implies that to succeed in politics of scarcity the conflict must be on terms of identity, so whatever the initial intentions such conflicts will tend to weaken the bond of camaraderie between the citizenry directly jeopardizing unity of nation.

      • rc said, on May 19, 2009 at 9:36 am

        Well put !

        Very similar to my ‘train’ of thought.

        Station 1: Fraternity is the casualty of identity conflicts.

        Station 2: identity conflicts are the result of adhoc compromises made to equality.

        Station 3: adhoc compromises to equality are the result of fake social justice (the no data version).

        Whether divided by religion or by caste, Indians can truly sit with each other only when we stop counting the ‘handicap’ assigned to us due to our identity.

        The reason for my permanent revulsion to the Congress party is that they count on this ‘handicap’ to stay in power more than anyone else.

  43. Gaurav said, on May 19, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    Yeah it is almost similar, where we differ is at station 2. I believe that identity conflicts are ‘powered’ by primary social instincts of man, and are triggered by either large inequality or a political system which is gamed to promote conflict, rest is just dressing.

  44. Revathi said, on May 19, 2009 at 2:31 pm

    I agree wtih Gaurav. I think all human beings like to belong and take pride in their tribe. This sentiment is exploited for political gains. If an educated german population could be swayed by one man to believe that the jews were the cause of all evil, why complain about the a population where very few women had passed high school and where history had still to be written in an objective sense. The tambrahms who went north werent immeadietly welcome for the same reason- but had to earn the respect of the locals by first learning the language (with terrible accent though) and then by being discrete and non interfering.

  45. rc said, on May 19, 2009 at 3:28 pm

    Revathi and Gaurav,

    Too fatalistic.

    • Gaurav said, on May 20, 2009 at 9:20 am

      I guess I am but it is only because I have a feeling that BJP had its chance to upturn the polity and it missed that and now it is not coming back for a long long time I am bitter.

  46. anon said, on May 19, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    I am still optimistic.The British played a big role in all this.We are exorcising many of these ghosts.Also we have achieved substantial successes which make us( the population) in general less prickly and inward looking and more mature and confident.

    Ofcourse a large segment is still mired in tribal identities and there are quite a few forces working overtime to keep them captive.But the forces unleashed are such that the mayavatis,lalus,mulayams,karus and ramadosses cannot control them.

    Most importantly there are multiple means of communication and people are actually moving within the nation .There are empowerment constraints and unequal information/power sharing.Yet we are moving from static to dynamic societies.Very Chaotic not ordered but still it is almost impossible to control population/information for long time.

    See how the Old Congress Brahmin Ideology is finished.The shelf life of karu/mulayam/lalu/Badal is going to be even shorter.

    There is going to be no ‘Ram Rajya’ but no Ravan Rajya as well.The Indic civilisation is not going to wither away.The survival instincts of Hindus are far too strong.

    • Revathi said, on May 20, 2009 at 7:25 am

      You write beautifully. Why remain anonymous?

  47. anon said, on May 22, 2009 at 8:20 am

    I am mighty pleased with the PM for humiliating DMK.Raja and Baalu are the laughing stock of the nation.

    Barb and Gaurav,

    I think you should give credit to the Congress for handling Akalis and DMK over the years.The British had instigated these two communities and they had a sense of separatism.In DMKs case it morphed into entitlement because of the 40 seats from TN and puducheri.

    The PM tolerated this nonsense only to finish off LTTE.The srilankan issue is intractable but india had a moral obligation to finish off LTTE because it had played a huge role in training LTTE.

    The PMK,MDMK gang with fringe separatist elements held a rally yesterday in Chennai demanding UN intervention in SL openly defying indian foreign policy.

    The Congress i feel has done a great job in defanging(co-opting)DMK into the national mainstream.

    Gaurav,
    I feel you shouldnt be bitter.I think the Congress will bring in changes that many of us so fervently hope.Who knows,one day,you might be in the forefront or even the helm of the momentous change.It is not easy to dismantle many of the shibboleths and behemoths of the past.

    Revathi,
    Flattered. i know my limitations.Better to be anonymous.

  48. anon said, on May 22, 2009 at 8:27 am

    Also Two Cheers to the sekular media for parrotting Congress line against DMK.I cant believe it.I like Burkha and Ram atleast for today.

  49. rc said, on May 22, 2009 at 1:52 pm

    anon,

    Sorry, I am unable to share your euphoria 🙂

    Scratch the surface please.

    The Congress will get away scot free on this one. I am amused at the PMs adamant refusal of Raja or Baalu.

    Look, either you are a virgin or you are not. If Rasa can evoke such passion in the Congress for being ‘tainted’, then why were they quiet when it all happened just a few months ago.

    The nation is being fooled again by the Congress and the media (the opposition is too naive or have settled – either case is scary).

    It is as if the PM and the Congress is saying, “I dont want you guys because the last time around you made us commit a monumental act of corruption.”

  50. anon said, on May 23, 2009 at 8:41 am

    premature ejaculation… embarassed.


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